McFarlane DC Multiverse

Yeah, Ivy is a character I like the idea/gimmick of, but when put to paper, it kinda fizzles out quick. There's only so much you can really do with plants and toxins and such, especially when you have other toxin-based villains. I do think she works best, ironically, as the more grounded balance to Harley's antics. I do really like the two of them together, as over-saturated as Harley has become. I did like what they did/were doing with her in BTAS, too- having her sorta tied into Harvey's backstory, and the creepy, but emotionally effective House and Garden episode.

All that is to say, I'd take just about any figure of her. No preferred version; she's just a classic Batman villain.
 
TheRealSmallville said:
As far as I know, Philip Kennedy Johnson's Action Comics run is still in-continuity, and Morrison's Superman/Authority mini was part of that. It didn't narratively all fit, as per Morrison's usual, but it's part of mainstream DC continuity. The Warworld Saga omnibus even has it slotted in there in the correct order.
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Yeah, the PKJ stuff is mainstream. But the Morrison series, I thought, was some sort of alternate future. Originally to be connected to the ill fated Generation 5 from Dan DiDio. Tied into Future State. At least that’s what I recall from an interview with Grant that I read a few years back.
 
AceofKnaves said:
Except the eco-terrorist stuff is 90s vintage. And even in B:TAS, it was an excuse to hurt people.
I just wish every villain’s (and especially every lady villain’s) rise to fame didn’t come with a need to make them anti-heroes or even “good guys”. A character can have a tragic backstory and even some relatable, reasonable motivations and still be fundamentally evil.
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There is a rather odd trend, usually by male writers, to make female villains as either misunderstood or victimized. To me, it's such an inversion of true feminism, in that it is built on the supposition that women cannot be just as complex and fucked up as any man. They treat females like poor little lambs that would never have done bad things if they hadn't had some sort of trauma. There has to be some sort of sympathetic component that isn't required for male characters. Sure, trauma CAN lead to some bad behaviors, but it isn't the only factor. A woman can be a sociopath, psychopath, narcissist, or just downright evil as much as any man can be.

That isn't to say I don't like some characters that are created from traumatic events. I just find with many female characters it's overdone, to the point where we really don't see too many irredeemably evil ones in fiction.
 
TheGillMan said:
sociopath, psychopath, narcissist
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Totally agree with your point, but I would be remiss as a mental health clinician if I didn’t note that personality disorders (like antisocial personality disorder [sociopath, psychopath] and narcissistic personality disorder) are indeed caused by trauma, usually severe early childhood trauma, usually of a sexual nature.

I actually think that is a major dividing line of Batman characters: did they come out of trauma kinder/more dedicated to helping other people NEVER go through what they themselves went through (which basically defines each member of the Bat-family one way or the other) . . . or was their reaction to trauma to strike out against other people, to twist themselves into something horrible (which applies to the villains, I’d say).

But yes the “ohhh if you just UNDERSTAND these villains it turns out they’re really sympathetic, actually” is a truly annoying trend.

Also (and maybe a hot take): constantly doing the sympathetic “well, actually . . .” with villains can lead to doing the same thing with real-life villains, and we are at a historic inflection point where we really really REALLY need to stop humanizing and apologizing for horrible humans who want to harm us.
 
Atomic Knight said:
I’m not as up on my Batman mythology as I should be, but what do you think of the theory that the original Pamela Isley has been replaced in continuity in a story that has yet to be told? I’ve seen it floated at least once in a comic, but can’t remember where.
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I think she has literally died and “grown back” at least once, so it is not an unreasonable theory.
 
Atomic Knight said:
Yeah, the PKJ stuff is mainstream. But the Morrison series, I thought, was some sort of alternate future. Originally to be connected to the ill fated Generation 5 from Dan DiDio. Tied into Future State. At least that’s what I recall from an interview with Grant that I read a few years back.
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Morrison's story was originally supposed to tie into 5G and the eventual Future State that sort of replaced it, which is why is starts with him meeting with JFK, but around issue 3 or 4 the plan was changed and they folded it into what PKJ was doing. That's how we ended up with the "Superman looks like Superman because Enchantress is using a glamour on him, but he actually looks old and when the magic wears off he has the white streaks in his hair" bit.

It was done very sloppy, as many modern DC things are, but it's definitely in continuity. It even ends with mentioning War World (if I recall...or perhaps it's "the next mission", but...either way).
 
scottg10 said:
Thank you for perfectly expressing how I felt when I saw Bloodwynd on the list.
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Dammit...I was so excited to see Bloodwynd, I didn't even notice the chase next to his name 🤬
 
Big Game of Thrones fan that I am, I think that Cerci was one of the worst villains in the history of television. Lena Headley, was of course, incredible in the role. A fleshed out, well realized character. Who just happened to be a really nasty big bad.
 
TheRealSmallville said:
Morrison's story was originally supposed to tie into 5G and the eventual Future State that sort of replaced it, which is why is starts with him meeting with JFK, but around issue 3 or 4 the plan was changed and they folded it into what PKJ was doing. That's how we ended up with the "Superman looks like Superman because Enchantress is using a glamour on him, but he actually looks old and when the magic wears off he has the white streaks in his hair" bit.

It was done very sloppy, as many modern DC things are, but it's definitely in continuity. It even ends with mentioning War World (if I recall...or perhaps it's "the next mission", but...either way).
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I forgot that part. Need to go back and reread it.
 
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