Mattel DC Figures

[mrboshek]

Spoiler

I think initially it's going to be a heavier split with modern than we might expect, if only because Absolute is such a massive success and the demand for the figures is both large and underserved. And obviously characters that appear in modern media are going to get more attention, but Gunn loves using obscure characters in cameo spots, so that might work out for classic fans in the end.

I don't know if DCUC is going to have any bearing on what they do here, but I'm guessing not much from Mattel's end. It's like whenever new Simpsons product gets released and people reference Playmates - these are 20-year-old lines. They're the most ancient of history. If it has any impact on Mattel's character selection, it's going to be indirect: collectors are probably going to campaign most strenuously for figures they don't have in that scale.

Hopefully not, because I was a pretty hardcore DCUC collector while it was a retail brand and I bought most of DC Icons, but I don't have any of those left from either line except for the Icons 7-pack, Icons Harley, Icons Wonder Woman, and Icons Green Arrow (he's tiny).
The WWE team got caught overthinking a couple times early on. Their first Sgt Slaughter had blue pants because nobody else did it, then it would be years before they released one closer to the style everyone really wanted. There was also Jimmy Snuka with pants and boots instead of his way more recognizable trunks and bare feet and that was it for him, with good reason.

 

[secondwhiteline]

Yeah, my thinking is that if it's early in a line and you're going to prioritze something because it's never been done before, it should probably have a ton of demand behind it. Jakks Simpsons making Stupid Sexy Flanders even before regular Flanders makes sense to me, that scene is a forever meme. Super7 Simpsons getting King Size Homer out there early, great; filling the line with stuff like the Itchy and Scratchy robots or Poochie before the core family, not so great.

I don't think a left-field choice or lineup early on is necessarily a bad thing. The first S7 Simpsons wave was kind of exciting and brought the line attention because it was so unexpected. DCUC immediately interested me because the first wave was so unusual. But I don't think they have to worry about initial interest here when even the basic line is getting good press for quality at that price point.

 

[SDcomics]

Mattel held the DC license from 2003-2019. And nearly tanked it.

In fairness, it was really DC Comics and Warner Brothers Consumer Products that killed DCUC and hurt Mattel. I know Mattel took the line from classic to whatever Geoff Johns was writing this week, and I don't know what the sales were like on the last couple of assortments, but it doesn't matter. The DC and WB brain trust didn't want anything with the word "classic" on store shelves while they were launching their "New 52." And that was that. It was a total kick in the crotch to fans who had been supporting DC for decades and I'm still pissed about it.

The good news is that nearly everyone who was with DC when that boneheaded decision was made is gone now. Jenette Kahn, Paul Levitz, Dan Didio, Geoff Johns, Diane Nelson, John Cunningham, Bob Harras, Georg Brewer, Syndee Barwick, Cheryl Rubin ... they've all retired or moved on. DC Comics is on a completely different coast now. At the moment, they have people in charge who seem to know what they're doing. We'll just have to wait and see.

Listen, don't get me wrong. The folks I named above were really nice and I know they loved their jobs. I especially enjoyed talking to Paul Levitz when I had the chance. I can tell you right now there was NO ONE more knowledgeable about the Golden and Silver Age of comics then this guy. He loved the classics and made no secret about that.

Cheryl Rubin was a different story. She was a real nice, considerate lady who always listened to fans when she was at SDCC. She was the Senior Vice President for Brand Management at the company and interestingly enough, she was also an artist and sculptor. I could never shake the feeling that she really didn't understood fans and our passion, though. Especially DC fans. I know at one point she wanted DC Direct to stop making action figures and just concentrate on the high end statues. I understood her reasoning. The statues were cheaper to make and yielded much higher profit margins. But ... action figures were DC Direct's bread and butter. That's what got the fans excited. So Georg Brewer and Paul Levitz had to explain that to her. Thank goodness they got through.

IIRC, it was Cheryl who negotiated the original deal with Mattel and DC. The higher ups at Warners were quite pleased with that and she got a big fat raise and promotion to Senior Vice President. She took an early retirement when DC made the move from New York to LA. I hope she's doing well. She really was a nice person.

So at DC there's a new regime. At Mattel, I don't know. Scott Neitlich is gone, we know that. I don't know about anyone else there. I know DC because I've been talking to them for over 40 years at SDCC. With Mattel, I couldn't tell ya. I haven't been in the Mattel booth since they lost the DC License so I don't know any of those people. Be that as it may, I would venture to guess most of the Mattel staffers who were around when the original deal with DC was struck are gone, too.

It is kinda nice that both Mattel and DC Comics are based in LA now. Me personally, I hate zoom and much prefer face to face meetings. I know other people who feel the same way. Now they can get together for lunch once in a while. I think in person confabs will make it easier for both companies.

Take this next bit with a grain of salt, but I have heard from one of the few contacts I still have in the toy industry that early last year, Warner Brothers had a test screening for the James Gunn Superman movie for potential licensees. Mattel attended the screening and they were so bowled over by what they saw they immediately went after the DC license. I guess they thought the film struck a good balance between adult and kiddie fare and if that was the direction DC Studios was going in they could merchandise the hell out of it.

I mean, who's NOT gonna want a Jason Momoa as Lobo figure? That's the most inspired bit of casting since Christopher Reeve as Superman. I don't collect movie figures and even I might buy that.

Like I said earlier, DC's in a good place right now. Mattel, whether we like them or not, is the biggest toy company in the world. Some good things can happen for both companies if they don't get greedy and stupid.

I know. The words "greedy and stupid" and "big corporations" just seem to go hand in hand ...

 

[Damien]

So at DC there's a new regime. At Mattel, I don't know. Scott Neitlich is gone, we know that. I don't know about anyone else there. I know DC because I've been talking to them for over 40 years at SDCC. With Mattel, I couldn't tell ya.

I can say definitively that there are some people at Mattel right now, both in 'make the toys' positions and in 'in charge of people making toys' positions that legitimately like action figures, collect all sorts of modern action figures, and understand collectors better than a lot of people that came before them. They are -why- the new MOTU movie figures look the way they do. And there's currently lots of inter-company chatter between DC's team and MOTU's team on what the future of Mattel action figures looks like.

I am well known as a Mattel hater. And trust me, there's still people in very high positions there that are absolute fucking idiots. But as much as can really be the case in any massive company, I think DC and MOTU are in good hands right now.

 

[Atomic Knight]

In fairness, it was really DC Comics and Warner Brothers Consumer Products that killed DCUC and hurt Mattel. I know Mattel took the line from classic to whatever Geoff Johns was writing this week, and I don't know what the sales were like on the last couple of assortments, but it doesn't matter. The DC and WB brain trust didn't want anything with the word "classic" on store shelves while they were launching their "New 52." And that was that. It was a total kick in the crotch to fans who had been supporting DC for decades and I'm still pissed about it.

The good news is that nearly everyone who was with DC when that boneheaded decision was made is gone now. Jenette Kahn, Paul Levitz, Dan Didio, Geoff Johns, Diane Nelson, John Cunningham, Bob Harras, Georg Brewer, Syndee Barwick, Cheryl Rubin ... they've all retired or moved on. DC Comics is on a completely different coast now. At the moment, they have people in charge who seem to know what they're doing. We'll just have to wait and see.

Listen, don't get me wrong. The folks I named above were really nice and I know they loved their jobs. I especially enjoyed talking to Paul Levitz when I had the chance. I can tell you right now there was NO ONE more knowledgeable about the Golden and Silver Age of comics then this guy. He loved the classics and made no secret about that.

Cheryl Rubin was a different story. She was a real nice, considerate lady who always listened to fans when she was at SDCC. She was the Senior Vice President for Brand Management at the company and interestingly enough, she was also an artist and sculptor. I could never shake the feeling that she really didn't understood fans and our passion, though. Especially DC fans. I know at one point she wanted DC Direct to stop making action figures and just concentrate on the high end statues. I understood her reasoning. The statues were cheaper to make and yielded much higher profit margins. But ... action figures were DC Direct's bread and butter. That's what got the fans excited. So Georg Brewer and Paul Levitz had to explain that to her. Thank goodness they got through.

IIRC, it was Cheryl who negotiated the original deal with Mattel and DC. The higher ups at Warners were quite pleased with that and she got a big fat raise and promotion to Senior Vice President. She took an early retirement when DC made the move from New York to LA. I hope she's doing well. She really was a nice person.

So at DC there's a new regime. At Mattel, I don't know. Scott Neitlich is gone, we know that. I don't know about anyone else there. I know DC because I've been talking to them for over 40 years at SDCC. With Mattel, I couldn't tell ya. I haven't been in the Mattel booth since they lost the DC License so I don't know any of those people. Be that as it may, I would venture to guess most of the Mattel staffers who were around when the original deal with DC was struck are gone, too.

It is kinda nice that both Mattel and DC Comics are based in LA now. Me personally, I hate zoom and much prefer face to face meetings. I know other people who feel the same way. Now they can get together for lunch once in a while. I think in person confabs will make it easier for both companies.

Take this next bit with a grain of salt, but I have heard from one of the few contacts I still have in the toy industry that early last year, Warner Brothers had a test screening for the James Gunn Superman movie for potential licensees. Mattel attended the screening and they were so bowled over by what they saw they immediately went after the DC license. I guess they thought the film struck a good balance between adult and kiddie fare and if that was the direction DC Studios was going in they could merchandise the hell out of it.

I mean, who's NOT gonna want a Jason Momoa as Lobo figure? That's the most inspired bit of casting since Christopher Reeve as Superman. I don't collect movie figures and even I might buy that.

Like I said earlier, DC's in a good place right now. Mattel, whether we like them or not, is the biggest toy company in the world. Some good things can happen for both companies if they don't get greedy and stupid.

I know. The words "greedy and stupid" and "big corporations" just seem to go hand in hand ...

I won’t argue or dispute anything you said. You’re boots on the ground. And I very much remember DC’s role in the downfall of DCUC. It just seems like there was a fair amount of apathy on Mattel’s part as well as greed. The then president of Mattel bonused himself a ridiculous amount of money IIRC. Even as they were losing market share th Hasbro.

Also as many things as Mattel tried with the DC license, it feels like the only thing that got any traction was DCUC and related. Nothing much seemed to stick as far as I can remember. Other than the Fischer Price stuff. JLU had run its course. The 3.75 inch figures had stalled. Mattel was phoning it in.

 

[SDcomics]

It just seems like there was a fair amount of apathy on Mattel’s part as well as greed.

Well ... yeah. Mattel is a big corporation. Greed is what they do.

Also as many things as Mattel tried with the DC license, it feels like the only thing that got any traction was DCUC and related. Nothing much seemed to stick as far as I can remember. Other than the Fischer Price stuff. JLU had run its course. The 3.75 inch figures had stalled. Mattel was phoning it in.

Yeah, Mattel made a ton of merchandise for the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern movie, then that came out an bombed. The Young Justice cartoon kept going on hiatus. The Snyderverse ... well, you know.

Anyway, I would be willing to bet the Toddster paid a lot less for the DC license then Mattel did.

 

[SDcomics]

Here you go, Gard.

 

[SDcomics]

My single biggest want in the world of action figures: The Satellite era JLA and the Golden Age JSA.

I know. We may get close, but there will be some that will never happen.

 

[Fletch]

It was really easy for me to pick a single point in time to base my Marvel Legends on from my nostalgic youth, but my DC reading was near-continuous in one form or another up through the year 2010. Fortunately DC likes to keep going back to its "classics," so there's probably a time that combines all my favorite "retro" costumes with all my favorite post-Crises heroes.

OR I stake a claim on, like, Earth-44 or something where history progressed in such a way that all my favorite characters exist in my preferred looks simultaneously.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

But I don't think they have to worry about initial interest here when even the basic line is getting good press for quality at that price point.

This is such a key point.

I'm a big believer in narratives. We've seen it over and over again for the last decade. Remember when the whole country hallucinated that the economy was in shambles in 2024 despite every data point saying the opposite? The story is more important than the reality.

Mattel is going into this with *good vibes* on their side. The McFarlane fans are disappointed, but the overwhelming majority of folks are willing to give Mattel the benefit of the doubt, especially now that they appear to have their shit together. That could be huge for them out of the gate.

 

[secondwhiteline]

This is such a key point.

I'm a big believer in narratives. We've seen it over and over again for the last decade. Remember when the whole country hallucinated that the economy was in shambles in 2024 despite every data point saying the opposite? The story is more important than the reality.

Mattel is going into this with *good vibes* on their side. The McFarlane fans are disappointed, but the overwhelming majority of folks are willing to give Mattel the benefit of the doubt, especially now that they appear to have their shit together. That could be huge for them out of the gate.

They're also regaining the license on an upswing for it, which I'm sure is helping their case, and at a time when the biggest competing superhero line is in a deep rut of uninspired repetition. But they're also making their own case well with the quality of the WWE and MOTU stuff and a good showing at Toy Fair.

I also don't think it's hurting that they seem like they're going to offer multiple ways to engage with and collect the line with what looks like a WWE-ish product tiering structure, when a lot of the biggest complaints about McFarlane's line have been built around pricing, rarity, and a collector-unfriendly chase system. Like, at no point should a mass-market line require a lottery platform for the chance to purchase figures. Tiering feels a lot better when it's offering you different price points and levels of buy-in instead of increasing levels of rarity and obligation.

 

[Xavion2025]

…and at a time when the biggest competing superhero line is in a deep rut of uninspired repetition.

That’s the most eloquent explanation I’ve seen to date of why I’ve grown bored with Marvel Legends over the last 18 months or so.

 

[Atomic Knight]

Mattel is regaining the DC license on an upswing. That’s established. But do comic sales, box office receipts, TV ratings and streaming minutes actually translate to merchandise sales? Empirically speaking. Not just a common sense feeling.

We’ve all heard over the years how big budget superhero movies will drive a stampede of new and lapsed comic fans back into brick and mortar comic shops. Which has largely been untrue in most parts of the country. At most, small, temporary sales spikes have been reported, then back to normal sales levels.

Essentially, can Mattel grow the pie? Not just in figures, but in all categories?

 

[Niko (protozoalord)]

It really depends on the media, but in the case of DC, I'd say all that matters is that you have media out there that isn't actively terrible. So long as it isn't DCEU levels of terrible, it'll probably be fine.

 

[secondwhiteline]

Mattel is regaining the DC license on an upswing. That’s established. But do comic sales, box office receipts, TV ratings and streaming minutes actually translate to merchandise sales? Empirically speaking. Not just a common sense feeling.

We’ve all heard over the years how big budget superhero movies will drive a stampede of new and lapsed comic fans back into brick and mortar comic shops. Which has largely been untrue in most parts of the country. At most, small, temporary sales spikes have been reported, then back to normal sales levels.

Essentially, can Mattel grow the pie? Not just in figures, but in all categories?

Mattel's job isn't to grow the pie in all categories. It's just to sell toys. Like, Mattel isn't why WWE has grown over the past 15 years, WWE's talent roster and business strategies are why. Mattel has done good work in its role adjacent to and benefitting from that growth, but toys are for an existing and presold audience.

I don't think it's comparable to independent comic book shops, because the infrastructure and accessibility differences between Walmart and I Hate Myself and Want to Die Comics (Now With Crustier Sales Staff!) are immeasurable. I'm not an expert in the comics industry, but I'm guessing things like library sales and adoption/sales of the digest formats by mass retailers like B&N and Amazon are way more telling than people returning to a building that's had the same cardboard standee of Witchblade up since 1998.