Harvinger Studios, Savage Crucible

Listening to their livestream yesterday, Rob mentioned something about wanting to do characters and fantasy niches that haven't been covered by other lines before. It reminded a little bit of Nacelle's justification of their initial Star Trek lineup being ridiculously niche because the main characters had already been done before. Dude, this is a new toyline! I want to see your versions of the classics!

I can respect them not wanting to retread ground covered so thoroughly by Legions, but this line will feel really weird if it doesn't get around to more of the core fantasy tropes eventually. 3 of the first 4 waves being entirely snake/lizard/fish men is just not what I want from this line.
 
docsilence said:
This is it right here. I actually think the figures are more durable and the engineering is more creative htan 4H (I do think 4H is more vibrant in color schemes but that's a lesser worry). It's that I don't want six fish men, six lizard men, and six mostly naked dudes... If they were doing wizards and rangers and knights (or y'know, ladies) and other fantasy stuff to world build with I'd be buying whole waves. Hell, the one figure I haven't set aside is Jaeger cos he does something different from ANYTHING else I own. I think Who-Man is more fun to pose than a Mythic Legion barbarian, but there's not much different from him to keep him company.

I'm definitely keeping a strong eye on their future offerings because the potential is huge but I need more variety. Or alternately like I'd build an entire army of Deep Ones/Murlocs/Kuo Toa from that upcoming wave but they're priced at a price point I'm quite comfortable buying individual characters at but not army building.
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I mean, I'm definitely into getting some fish-people. That's cool. And I recognize tooling is expensive so they're not gonna do a wave with four figures that each have totally new and unique tools. So I'm okay with waiting. But I also share the complaint. I'll get a fish guy because that's different from what I already own (I wish they were shorter, though). But this line is too expensive for me to army build, so I'm not getting 10 fish guys. I'm getting one. MAYBE 2. After that, I'm basically waiting until the next time they release something -different-, which will apparently not be wave 4 (although I'll end up getting a snake man, despite similarities to the lizard men). I REALLY wanted to see that dwarf figure in wave 4, and maybe the goblin (or whatever they're calling it).

And yeah, of course, eventually I want to see knights and wizards and shit. I know that stuff was in a lot of their original concept art they shared a long time ago, so I'm sure it's all coming.

For this line, I'd actually argue (and win the argument) that Savage Crucible is more diverse than Mythic Legions on a per-year-of-release basis thus far. Within the first 30 figures released for the line, there will be something like 5-7 distinct bodies plus variations in feet and hands and heads and such? The first 20 figures in Mythic Legions were literally the same two knights with different paint.

TheCaptain said:
Listening to their livestream yesterday, Rob mentioned something about wanting to do characters and fantasy niches that haven't been covered by other lines before. It reminded a little bit of Nacelle's justification of their initial Star Trek lineup being ridiculously niche because the main characters had already been done before. Dude, this is a new toyline! I want to see your versions of the classics!

I can respect them not wanting to retread ground covered so thoroughly by Legions, but this line will feel really weird if it doesn't get around to more of the core fantasy tropes eventually. 3 of the first 4 waves being entirely snake/lizard/fish men is just not what I want from this line.
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With all respect to Rob, I think that's a stupid ass excuse. Particularly when a 1/4 of your current figures are naked barbarian guys. Did no other lines ever make naked barbarian guys before?
 
I do think it's off the pulse not to have a female on offer this far in. Should have been one early on, tbh. Show us what you're thinking and the earlier we get that, the more we can tweak as the line goes. Doesn't even need to be a barbarian babe. Make a cool rogue like Jaeger.

But yes, agree with all these above. The best way to compete with Legions, intentional or not, is to just do what you want in your style. Do whatever you're wanting to do, be authentic, and don't try to game it. You don't have to go all in on Knights or Naked Dudes for a wave (I get it, molds and economy), but just show me why to spend on you and not anyone else. I don't care what other lines have done or haven't. I'm trying to buy this line.

That's for any Creatives, any Field.
 
Imagine a writer being like 'I didn't write the fantasy book I really wanted to write because other people have written fantasy books.' I just don't get the logic. Like, if the baseline fear is 'gotta avoid doing the same stuff as Mythic Legions' then your fantasy line is going to be kind of shitty, because Mythic Legions has basically already hit every major fantasy trope that people want to see in a fantasy line. So all you're going to do is the ancillary stuff? But in a line that isn't meant to be ancillary to Mythic Legions? Pick a lane and hit the accelerator.

Agree about female figures. Although I do imagine the first female we get is going to be a 'barbarian' because that nude body will be easier to figure out how to re-use and to build off of.
 
Totally understand them not wanting to retread what their closest competition has done, but the funny thing is there's some really obvious, glaring spots in fantasy figures they could do at this scale that 4H has almost completely ignored--rogues/rangers/lightly armored adventurers (the armor on Jaeger is the best I've seen for a lightly armored figure), female spellcasters, lots of classic undead that aren't skeletons or zombies. Really is a ton of potential to fill a gap a lot of folks are looking for.
 
I'll have to listen to the podcast myself, but my instinct is to think you guys are over-reacting. Harvinger is a small company. They can only put out so much product and only have so much capital. I understand wanting to make your product distinct from the competition.

No one was making lizardmen. No one was making fishmen. They did some humans, for which there is competition. They're making Elric, which no one has done before. They're making Frazetta figures, of which there is competition but there hasn't been duplication. They're making college football figures, which must be doing well as they've greatly expanded the number of teams for the line and by the way no one else was making.

They're trying to put new parts into each figure so there isn't a lot of "same figure different paint job" (slate figures are an exception). And believe it or not, they don't have unlimited funds. Rob has a day job for Pete's sake. So just thinking they should spend even more money for an all-new female body as well as everything they've been doing is a bit much. So all these items and still...it's not enough. Good lord.

Certainly, they'll get to some female characters. And I'm fine with them taking they're time telling their story (and yes there is a story to Savage Crucible) and making what inspires them. They don't need to make a traditional knight, wizard, and elf ranger...right now. Let them do their thing. They already have a handful of different bodies (lizard, fish, human, football, snakeman parts, Elric is all new) and at least one or two in the works (dwarf, goblin). They're way ahead of other small companies. Just be patient .
 
Ashtalon said:
Harvinger is a small company. They can only put out so much product and only have so much capital. I understand wanting to make your product distinct from the competition.
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Yeah, I agree with that and didn't see anyone saying anything to the contrary. I think I, and others, would argue that it's already distinct from the competition, so arguing you don't want to do certain things because other companies are doing it isn't a great reason.

Ashtalon said:
So just thinking they should spend even more money for an all-new female body as well as everything they've been doing is a bit much.
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I don't think anyone said 'as well as everything else.' Females are always highly requested in any collector line, so one could argue that spending the money to tool completely different bodies for both lizardmen and snakemen right at the beginning of the line instead of maybe lizardmen and females, just for example, maybe isn't a great call. Obviously, that's a preference thing. But I don't think anyone said 'oh, and they should have made female figures -also-.' More instead of.


Ashtalon said:
So all these items and still...it's not enough. Good lord.
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Literally no one said 'it's not enough.'
We're all talking about how we don't want to see them actively choose to not do things they could do really well just because someone else already did something similar. Quite literally no one has complained that they're not doing every type of thing all at the same time. Just that we don't want to see that justification used to just not make those things at all. Or put them way in the distance.

Ashtalon said:
They don't need to make a traditional knight, wizard, and elf ranger...right now.
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Says who? (I mean, obviously they don't NEED to make anything at all, but you know what I mean here.)
Isn't this just perspective? If someone sees what they're making and says 'I'd like this line way more if it had a cool wizard because I like wizards' - why is that not a valid criticism?

Hell, my own criticism was that I was hoping wave 4 would either include the dwarf or the goblin - so I'm not even saying I want them to tool up some whole new thing just for me. I just wanted to see the thing come out they've already shown off that's cool, rather than a wave that feels just a bit samey. But, I mean, I also already made the exact argument that they're doing extremely well with variety compared to where Mythic Legions was at this point in ML's release pattern.
 
Not trashing the company. Jaeger's probably one of my favorite buys this year and I picked up three more figures pretty much immediately based on that (hardest parts was finding ones I wanted on stock!). But their upcoming character selection has slowed me down, which is fine. I said I'm watching what they'll do next closely cos they make really great figures. There's just not much on the horizon that interests me enough to run it down. And yeah, any company only making male characters is kinda meh, but they're in good company with that. Todd actively disdains female characters FFS, and Monster Force, the other revelation of my buying this year, hasn't done a female character yet. Harvinger's stuff is great, but after the first $250 in figures, I'm not compulsively buying everything they make now.

I'd like a whole cult/tribe of the fishmen but that's a price point thing. Same reason I didn't buy three copies of the OMF General. (Actually the funny thing with the fishmen is unlike the lizardmen, I either want a TON of fish guys or none, whereas the lizard guys I like as individual, standalone characters.) I've got two and I'm really pleased with them.

I mean to be honest, a wave of three where I like one enough I'll pay full price up front a year in advance is pretty good.
 
Ashtalon said:
I'll have to listen to the podcast myself, but my instinct is to think you guys are over-reacting. Harvinger is a small company. They can only put out so much product and only have so much capital. I understand wanting to make your product distinct from the competition.
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For myself, I feel like Mythic doesn't deliver on poseabiltiy, which is important to me. Don't even care about knights. Thraice. The sorcerers. Any of the vampires. Even Cosmic.

It's cool, I've learned it's not really for me.

But Savage is making things that appeal to me. So yeah, take the swing at things because I think it would hit me where 4H didn't. Maybe they don't want to. I'll still check them out.

But between Mythic, the lamenting of the mishandling of D&D at NECA and Hasbro, the popularity of Xesray and how they pivoted, the Mety knock off Warcraft, Boss Fight. There's openings. There's interest. Would be cool if they took them.
 
Xesray Studio is the perfect example. Their female barbarian turned everyone's head because she's cool and unique. Same for their minotaurs. Harvinger could easily supplement or better 4H with products like that. 4H has done both women barbarians and minotaurs, yet I was far more interested in Xesray's releases. The same opportunity exists with wizards and knights.

While Harvinger successfully tapped subgenres like Conan, Frazetta, and barbarians, the rest of the industry has caught on. The market is almost oversaturated with Conan products now.

If they don't want to compete in a crowded space, they could try relatively unexplored areas. I'm itching for good samurai, gods (particularly Greek or Norse), and Totally Not D&D-Licensed Monsters, like Illithids. Their wave 3 squid men are already frustratingly close.

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That Xesray barbarian is my first preorder from them, because so far nobody's done a barbarian woman character that's actually really worked for me. 4H's are okay, but plain an the ROM isn't great. I keep thinking about picking up one of their gladiators as a test figure like i did with Jaeger but I worry like Jaeger I'll immediately spend another 200 bucks on more.
 
I very nearly grabbed that brown minotaur this week, but then found out that the Berserker Studios Zeus is totally sold out. No point in getting a stand-in Asterius if I can't start a Greek mythology shelf in earnest.
 
TheSameIdiot said:
I very nearly grabbed that brown minotaur this week, but then found out that the Berserker Studios Zeus is totally sold out. No point in getting a stand-in Asterius if I can't start a Greek mythology shelf in earnest.
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Their lion gladiator calls to me, too. I like beastfolk monsters so much. I think it's why Jaeger was my first buy here. "Is he a werewolf? Is he a bugbear? I don't care, he's got claws and fangs and an eyepatch."
 
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