General Marvel Legends

April 1st can't come fast enough - all the revealed items will be up for preorder and we can finally get another stream and some new announcements to discuss.
 
Lucid Silverback said:
Most of y'all know me and my repeated push for multiple tandem ML sublines. Well, howsabout another one for @PantherCult comprised solely of never-before-made characters (the more obscure the better), that drops at least one wave each year, is available via fan channel only, and we call it "Marvel Legends Premier"?
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Best of luck with that! Can't imagine it'll pegwarm.
 
To be clear, I'm all for never-been-made figures to be made. But they have a tendency to be unpopular in sales. Just strolling through my Targets, I'm seeing Owl and Hypno Hustler piling up, while there's no 2099 or even Spider-Venom to be seen. There are plenty of other examples from previous waves. Fan Channel only does make sense for characters like this. I don't think they are the draw at Big Box retail.
 
Lucid Silverback said:
Most of y'all know me and my repeated push for multiple tandem ML sublines. Well, howsabout another one for @PantherCult comprised solely of never-before-made characters (the more obscure the better), that drops at least one wave each year, is available via fan channel only, and we call it "Marvel Legends Premier"?
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This is sort of what Fan Channel BAF waves should be since they are geared to fans and they are not available at big box retail: one A lister and one B lister with name recognition with a different costume, a needed update, etc. That would leave the other five spots and the BAF for never-been-made-before characters.
 
TheSameIdiot said:
The new character/redo argument is the big divider around here these days. Whenever it comes up, I fully expect to see someone smashing a beer bottle over someone else's head. Bar fight energy.
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What argument? The correct answer is obviously the way I do it, which is that anything pre-ML Infinite is fair game to be considered a new character. I thought we had all achieved perfect 100% unanimity on this point!

And even that clearly correct approach will be a moot point soon as there are hardly any characters left from that era that haven't gotten the redo treatment (at least in terms of mainline comic/616 characters aka the ones that matter). Did someone make a list recently?
 
Never before made characters are really the ONLY thing that I have interest in buying going forward, but I'd be perfectly content if we just got one per wave. I can just skip everything else. I'm perfectly content to go a decade in between updates of previously made characters and I'm not someone who has any interest in alternate costumes for anybody. I just want one mostly definitive look of any character in my collection and I'm good. I will buy every single new distinct character that gets made, though - no matter how obscure. But it's not even about the obscure, there are characters that have hundreds of comic appearances that have never been immortalized in the line even after one quarter of a century. Those are the ones that I really want personally.
 
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NORM said:
To be clear, I'm all for never-been-made figures to be made. But they have a tendency to be unpopular in sales. Just strolling through my Targets, I'm seeing Owl and Hypno Hustler piling up, while there's no 2099 or even Spider-Venom to be seen. There are plenty of other examples from previous waves. Fan Channel only does make sense for characters like this. I don't think they are the draw at Big Box retail.
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Precisely. I feel like most ML collectors understand that in order to include obscure characters peppered into the line, you need to have your 40th Wolverine variant. When sales are strong, you get dedicated sculpts for figures like Hypno Hustler. Hasbro has learned what's necessary to actually put in effort so you don't have another Rock Python situation. I mean, the fact that they made a Hypno Hustler at all should be a huge beacon of hope for the folks who clamor only for new and obscure characters. And here's the thing - those folks aren't the one's even helping those characters get made. At all. It's the people talking about and getting excited for a new and improved Daredevil that will definitely sell well. The people who buy the entire wave comprised mostly of popular characters or who buy the 2 packs for the almost perfect Punisher. We support the line so that the people who just want their Attuma and only Attuma can have that.

So, frankly, making condescending "my eyes are rolling so hard I had a seizure" and "I'm literally giggling to myself like an idiot" comments over suggestions that aren't 100% new and obscure characters is itself laughable. It's not exactly an advanced concept to understand that popular characters sell well, which translates to the line doing well and a creative team that rewards such success with fucking Hypno Hustler. If left to the D-list-only crew, the line would crash and burn within a year. Marvel Legends has been sustained for 20-whatever years by the same model of waves anchored by popular characters so that it continues long enough and is successful enough to include the niche characters you all only want - all while offering nothing more than "another Wolverine, pass" during every live stream.

There is no universal appeal of obscure characters. That's why they are and remain obscure. Do you need to actually see a wave of obscure characters that are fan-channel exclusive sit readily available and be continually discounted in perpetuity to realize that's not a great way to get more obscure characters made in the future? Do you think fan-channels need to sit on stock that isn't selling to figure out that might be bad for the line?

No one is saying you shouldn't want or get that random 2-panel-appearance character that made you feel special when you were 6. I think people are pretty thrilled when someone gets that niche character that they've wanted their whole life and never stop talking about it. However, in order to get that crazy random release of Egghead - you need some solid Wolverine, Captain America, Spider-Man, Iron Man and Deadpools. To be a salty dick when people are discussing or suggesting releases of popular characters because they will also be buying all of them, which in turn supports the line so it can have more obscure characters included... I mean what is that accomplishing really?
 
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Oh I get it, and agree that model is critical when dependent on brick-and-mortar stores to distribute the line, but the game has changed dramatically with online ordering and fan channel distribution. As has been discussed ad nauseum, one must factor in those business calculations and make shrewd decisions to justify novel sculpts, accessories, paint applications, and character selection. But these capitalist metrics have left us not only with numerous criminally neglected characters, but also with redundant A-listers, repaints, phone-ins, and "hostage figures". Heck, every time I mention my distaste for the BaF marketing scheme, inevitably multiple people chime in with their oh-so-keen business strategy insights and a million reasons the BaF (or having a constant flow of A-listers) is critical to getting obscure characters and avoid killing the line. Understand this line isn't going anywhere; it is a bottomless gold mine. I think there needs to be exclusive delivery avenues for the more obscure characters that don't depend solely on the flagship line to deliver them. And like @Beamish said, ideally the BaF should function to deliver those obscure characters but it seems like it more often effectively serves to coax us into buying yet another gd Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine, or flash-in-the-pan modern figure many don't want. Currently, many people arent buying entire BaF waves but instead going to ebay or setting up trades on forums like this to obtain their parts. Also it seems the current model (and pricing) has pushed more and more people to play the long game and wait for sales or clearance prices for many of their purchases. Yet the line marches on.
It has been made quite clear ML is considered an adult collector's line, so I assert it is high time that it's actually treated as such. Sure some figures/characters won't be as popular or sell as well as others, but as if that doesn't happen now. Simply reduce or increase production numbers according to obscurity/popularity. If your estimates prove to be off, put more into production. Again, it seems they are already doing this to some extent. I mean, isn't Target ordering full cases of only one or two specific figures?
Like I incessantly assert, we should have multiple themed sublines analogous to Gamerverse, but "Premier", "Monsters", "Supernatural", "Marvel Handbook", "Silver Age", etc., and even "From the Rack" for modern takes. And as others have mentioned, have a separate evergreen line for A-and-B listers and consistently serve that shiz up in the brick-and-mortar stores for all the kids and normies. And for all you who want to keep the current BaF model because you like the "variety" it provides, just think of the variety that would be available to you with multiple sublines.
If they're actually themed properly, I wouldn't even be averse to them being BaF waves.

Sorry for the long-winded rant but, @EnigmaticClarity hasn't been posting much as of recent, so I expect y'all were jonesin' for a dissertation.

Edit: Ha! It looks like @Enforcer already beat me to the dissertation.
 
So... I hear you on all of this, and a lot of it sounds very novel in concept - but it's not the reality in practice. First and foremost, the game is a bit different - but changed dramatically? Fan channel isn't going to be super keen to take on more stock that is a risk to move. If anything, they are more risk averse. So the numbers they order of a "niche-only" wave will be much lower, and that certainly doesn't inspire a brand to keep making more of something. Hasbro is a corporation and does have targets, after all. Fan channel benefits just as much as anyone when Wolverine and Spider-Man sell out.

And you speak with a bit of condescension about people pointing out that the BAF or A-List concept is essential to the line's continued success. It's honestly a fact at this point. It's not great that you might have to buy a bunch of A-list figures to get some obscure character BAF - but the model has allowed that character to exist in figure form in the first place. And in reality the one place where the game really has changed is the ability to acquire or offload things you don't want or only need parts of online. World-wide digital marketplace. That part, while still effort, has never been easier. The line isn't going anywhere and a goldmine because of the decisions made to keep it that way - and would not be the case if they shifted models to lean heavily into to new or niche characters. Poor decision making is still bad for business and would kill the line - maybe not in the eyes of those specialized "non-normie" collectors, but certainly in the eyes of retailers... who we need to pay Hasbro to distribute this stuff.

As for decreasing production numbers based on perceived popularity? Could you imagine the uproar from an already vocal corner of the community if their long cherished Dr. Bong wasn't easily available or sold out instantly? Honestly, think about that shitstorm for a moment.

Having the perfect "banded sub-line" also isn't the answer, because at the end of the day - they are all Legends and it's all the same shared budget. For all of the reasons listed above, it would not work out well to have a "niche wave" produced in lower quantities, as it would still hurt the Legends brand regardless of the theme or wave branding. But your point about the "separate" line of A-listers being necessary does still hold true...but not just for brick and mortar. It's necessary throughout the Legends brand. Each wave needs to have those anchors - they can't have one wave that will sell insanely well at the trade off of one that is almost guaranteed will go on clearance. A niche line that somehow magically hits the target of "the right" niche characters with a niche BAF is honestly impossible... and wouldn't sell.

There is a reason the line exists the way it does. It enables niche characters to be made at all. Do some of Hasbo's decisions frustrate me? Sure. Do I want a classic Punisher on that new body now in a single card? Fuck yeah. When people start blaming evil capitalism for not having the Attuma they always wanted - would that person also respond to the offer of making $100 more an hour to do that same job with "Fuck you I quit and I'm going to live off the grid"? No. Money talks, and it talks to everyone. For better or worse, and in this case, it has at least given us Hypno Hustler. On the plus side, you get to save all the money you want until they get around to making that one 4 issue appearance character Humbug. The other idiots buying their 60th Spider-Man are making that happen. Don't hate them.
 
Chooch555 said:
We seem to be moving away from waves as a concept. It's not uncommon for a single figure to be announced and then solicited.
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Absolutely. A lot of these seem to involve minimal new tooling, but not zero. Most are meant to entice retailers, so they're at least B-listers in a new costume or variation. I wouldn't say waves are dead... but we get maybe a handful of regular ones a year (figure+BAF) which is lower due to less MCU properties in theaters. The rest are multipacks, anniversary waves, retailer exclusives, or some variation of these on a retro card...
 
It might not matter much if Target is serious about scaling back their toy section. They may only be interested in exclusives starting in 2027 and with Walmart who knows what's going on with them? I walk into some stores and they have a fairly robust toy section, others have next to nothing and have been that way for the better part of a year. Hasbro may be forced into a Fan Channel model for everything eventually as brick and mortar toy outlets fade away. At least in the US.
 
@PantherCult I didn't say "new, never before released". I said "new figures that aren't redos from figures over the past few years". Y' know, as in making figures of new characters making different outfits for characters made over the past few years, like Psylocke and Thing. I just think it'd be cool to see a pink suit Psylocke or Thing in his Fantastic Four tank top outfit to change things around a bit, is all. My apologies for the confusion.

EDIT: By the way, if anyone needs it, the Colossus and Shadowcat "Astonishing X-Men" two-pack is back up for pre-order on Amazon.
 
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