Articulated Thoughts General Movie and Series News & Discussion

Fletch said:
You might be right. But that's at least what Casino and Reservoire Dogs are about. And Sopranos, I think. Scarface. Goodfellas.

I'm likely missing some subtext, but my only takeaway from them is that we get to enjoy the power fantasy of it all while being comforted that things will at least go bad for them toward the end.
Click to expand...
That's the opposite of what all of those movies are saying. 😄
 
I think there tends to be a *huge* difference between what many gangster movies are trying to say, and what certain fans of gangster movies get (choose to get??) out of them.
My ick tends to be less with the films themselves and more with how certain folks elevate and lionize the characters within. Is Goodfellas about how cool it is to be a gangster? Heh, no. Do TONS of bros walk away from that film going “damn, being a gangster would be FUCKING AWESOME”? Heheheh yes. Then multiply that x1000 for Scarface. “FUCK YEAH THE WORLD IS MINE!” Sigh, no it isn’t, little dude.
This is not distinct to that genre, though, the insecure-male power fantasy insists on playing itself out everywhere, despite the intentions of creators. I mean people idolize the Joker, for crying out loud. And I have so many friends who *still* think Fight Club is the noble manifesto of embattled masculinity.
 
AceofKnaves said:
I think there tends to be a *huge* difference between what many gangster movies are trying to say, and what certain fans of gangster movies get (choose to get??) out of them.
Click to expand...
Yes exactly. And it can be too easy to let the latter get in the way of enjoying something. You brought up the Joker, and I know I've mentioned how the extreme Joker fans really made Dark Knight hard for me to watch for a little while.
AceofKnaves said:
My ick tends to be less with the films themselves and more with how certain folks elevate and lionize the characters within. Is Goodfellas about how cool it is to be a gangster? Heh, no. Do TONS of bros walk away from that film going “damn, being a gangster would be FUCKING AWESOME”? Heheheh yes.
Click to expand...
Right? There's a lot of subtext but the book makes it a lot clearer. They make the point that the people working 9 to 5 were suckers, and whatever they wanted they just took, but at the same time they have to hustle CONSTANTLY. They are always not only in fear of being snuffed out suddenly by enemies, but also by 'friends' just for not making their payment sufficiently, since the Mafia is essentially a massive pyramid scheme. They can never stop moving, hustling, and scheming.
AceofKnaves said:
Then multiply that x1000 for Scarface. “FUCK YEAH THE WORLD IS MINE!” Sigh, no it isn’t, little dude.
Click to expand...
Ugh, yeah. I'm not even a fan of that one and still don't get why people idolize it.
AceofKnaves said:
This is not distinct to that genre, though, the insecure-male power fantasy insists on playing itself out everywhere, despite the intentions of creators. I mean people idolize the Joker, for crying out loud. And I have so many friends who *still* think Fight Club is the noble manifesto of embattled masculinity.
Click to expand...
UGH! Come the fuck on with Fight Club! I thought it was so amazing when it came out, but yeah a lot of people reeeeeeeeeally missed the point of it.
 
The tragedy in Goodfellas is that Henry Hill never realizes that his dream of being a gangster was flawed from the start and that he was, in fact, not a good guy. I think it does a great job of showing why a young person is attracted to the superficial part (money, girls, power) but that the reality is cold, violent and unfulfilling. That's why the whole scene with Spider is so perfect - up until then you might have been thinking Pesci was a justified hothead and DeNiro was reasonable. After that you can only conclude they are both sociopaths.
 
fac said:
The tragedy in Goodfellas is that Henry Hill never realizes that his dream of being a gangster was flawed from the start and that he was, in fact, not a good guy. I think it does a great job of showing why a young person is attracted to the superficial part (money, girls, power) but that the reality is cold, violent and unfulfilling. That's why the whole scene with Spider is so perfect - up until then you might have been thinking Pesci was a justified hothead and DeNiro was reasonable. After that you can only conclude they are both sociopaths.
Click to expand...
Ugh, this is one of those times where I wish I'd said nothing and just waited for you to come along and be succinct. Yeah, exactly. And even after he's turned on them and they're getting ready, some of them, to spend the rest of their lives locked away, he still glamorizes it.
 
AceofKnaves said:
I think there tends to be a *huge* difference between what many gangster movies are trying to say, and what certain fans of gangster movies get (choose to get??) out of them.
My ick tends to be less with the films themselves and more with how certain folks elevate and lionize the characters within. Is Goodfellas about how cool it is to be a gangster? Heh, no. Do TONS of bros walk away from that film going “damn, being a gangster would be FUCKING AWESOME”? Heheheh yes. Then multiply that x1000 for Scarface. “FUCK YEAH THE WORLD IS MINE!” Sigh, no it isn’t, little dude.
This is not distinct to that genre, though, the insecure-male power fantasy insists on playing itself out everywhere, despite the intentions of creators. I mean people idolize the Joker, for crying out loud. And I have so many friends who *still* think Fight Club is the noble manifesto of embattled masculinity.
Click to expand...
Yep. The big question is whether it's ethical to make art like Goodfellas. I think you could have that debate about almost all of Scorsese's films. My wife and I had that conversation about Taxi Driver after I showed it to her for the first time. It famously inspired John Hinckley to shoot Ronald Reagan. (Hold your jokes, fellas. We're all thinking the same thing.)

Personally, I think it depends on how clear the movie is. I can't read Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, or The King of Comedy any other way. The Wolf of Wall Street—a top five movie of the century for me—is still dragged for this. If your satire or themes aren't obvious enough for the majority of your audience to read them, that's on you as the artist. I'd put Scarface, Fight Club, and American Psycho in that category. It depends on the ratio of fans who misread the movie to those who understand it.
 
Yeah, by the time we got to Wolf of Wall Street, I just decided to conscientiously object. I despise DiCaprio anyway, I could see *exactly* where the bros were going to run with the story in “popular culture”, and I just said to myself “fuck it, you don’t need to engage with this movie AT ALL”. And I haven’t.
 
To me, Wolf of Wall Street.... I really appreciate absurdity. Like, I have thoughts and feelings on my dad, but he is such an absurd person and that part I can laugh at. I can appreciate that ... i think the entire cast probably? of Wolf of Wall Street are despicable and awful people*, but the events in the movie are so absurd that I can enjoy that. Does it look like a bunch of fun and I wish I was living that? Absofuckinglutely not, no way. I don't want to be anywhere near anyone like that, let alone know or be one.

*Yeah, even Rob Reiner's character, rest in peace.
 
Of course! And I totally get there's a few reasons people wouldn't be into them. When I saw Departed, it was with my wife, my stepsister, and her husband, and the two of them hated it throughout the whole viewing, so I got an earful of the reasons pretty much live, heh.
 
New "The Muppet Show", which looks to be back to the basics of the Muppets having a variety show, will be on Disney+ Feb 4 - currently a single episode but could be a pilot for more....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top