Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies and Streaming Series Discussion

fac said:
I guess Kirk and Ethan Hunt are up there in film appearances as well. Kirk's end was unsatisfying (to me) and they seem to not want to give Hunt a true ending.
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Bullshit, Kirk had a decent sendoff with Undisclosed Country. It was a bit of a wait for the next Star Trek film, First Contact, but definitely worth it.
 
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Ru1977 said:
Bullshit, Kirk had a decent sendoff with Undisclosed Country. It was a bit of a wait for the next Star Trek film, First Contact, but definitely worth it.
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Ha! Took me a second to follow you on this one...

I was happy with Undiscovered Country but felt that Kirk dying to save the Klingons would have been a fascinating ending to his character, and I thought they sort of copped out last minute.
 
Ru1977 said:
I think if you're still enthusiastic for the MCU, it's a really effective teaser. I wish it was coming sooner!
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I almost feel like this is a more effective teaser if you're NOT enthusiastic for the MCU. People who are enthusiastic for the MCU, to my mind, were excited to see it keep moving along. People NOT enthusiastic for the MCU are the ones that want it to go back to the way it was and bring back all the characters we've said goodbye to.

fac said:
I've argued here and elsewhere that they gave us 7 films with Cap as a lead character and 9 films with IM as a main character and it was time to conclude their stories. But many fans have purposely rejected any chance for the MCU to move on and feature other characters and complained that they need more Cap and IM, even though you have to go back to the early days of film for any character (outside of maybe some horror) to get 7 and 9 films with the same actor to tell their story.

My hope is they have a good story reason to bring back Steve.
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Exactly this. The audience for these films has complained endlessly every time the MCU tries to move on from the established names. As much as I don't want to defend a billion-dollar studio... what are they supposed to do if they want to sell a product? They need it to appeal to the most people and most people are still in love with Steve and essentially reject the very idea of him getting an ending to his story.
But they'll also complain when bringing him back ruins the ending he got. There's no winning here unless, by some miracle, this movie is amazing AND gives us an even better ending to these characters (because there's no way Chris Evans can just play Cap for another decade).
 
Ru1977 said:
Well I guess speaking for myself, as someone still enthusiastic for the MCU, I found it to be a really effective teaser.
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I should clarify. I think if you're still just generally onboard with 'Marvel movies' and just want more of that, this can be effective at getting you excited but probably MOST things will be. I'm more arguing that this type of teaser is specifically intended to target the people that are predisposed not to be excited about a new MCU trailer because they don't care about the newer additions that have been presented as the future of the franchise.
 
Damien said:
I should clarify. I think if you're still just generally onboard with 'Marvel movies' and just want more of that, this can be effective at getting you excited but probably MOST things will be. I'm more arguing that this type of teaser is specifically intended to target the people that are predisposed not to be excited about a new MCU trailer because they don't care about the newer additions that have been presented as the future of the franchise.
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Probably, I guess. My perspective... I've been excited for a lot of the newer additions. I appreciated some things like GOTG3 and No Way Home, and I did enjoy Black Widow even if it was better late than never, but was really excited for Eternals, Thunderbolts, FF, Shang Chi, She Hulk, Ms Marvel and the Marvels, and still hope for the Young Avengers to come together under whatever name they go with. I was perfectly fine with Cap retiring and can appreciate a solid ending for a character, but I'm also not one that NEEDS to have a character's life documented entirely. Riding off into the sunset is perfectly fine, imagining them still out there getting into what have you.

That said, having Steve come back like this, I'm really intrigued by the plot. What have they come up with here? Including him, along with Doom looking like Tony, I'm really interested to see how it unfolds. So even as someone who is still into the MCU, but was content with that being the last we see of Steve, I'm extremely curious to learn what is going on here.
 
My wife and I just had a long talk about this.
She hates Endgame, like more than I do, and a major reason is the manufactured stakes. Surprise! Tony has a kid now and it is driving all of his motivation! Sure, this was never a part of his character before but FAMILY! Ya gotta get behind him because awww FAMILY! I love you 3000! 🤮🤮🤮

. . . and now here we fucking go again.

And then of course we are going to get “Event” Doom with zero buildup, like if 1984’s Secret Wars was Doom’s first appearance with zero of the 20 year buildup of who he is, what he wants, why he wants it . . .

I just don’t buy what they are selling. I’m so tired of made-up children being forced on these stories to provide emotional manipulation. And yeah, I feel the same way about creepy Baby Yoda, although at least that’s an original narrative and not some cheap heartstrings-pulling addition to stuff that already exists.

Like holy fuck Steve Rogers was like the only MCU character who did shit because it was the right thing to do rather than because he had some narcissistic personal stake in the outcome, and now we have another “scared and angry dad”. Fuck man they’re gonna start a club of Dadvengers. At least Franklin has precedent.

Dammit, they’re gonna blow their third run at Doctor Doom.
 
AceofKnaves said:
And then of course we are going to get “Event” Doom with zero buildup, like if 1984’s Secret Wars was Doom’s first appearance with zero of the 20 year buildup of who he is, what he wants, why he wants it . . .
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Actually, I did think of one response. I was thinking how one, just one, issue we don't share is the desire for the movies to get comparable to the comics as far as having a shitload of story. I'm perfectly happy with the movies moving at their pace and telling the stories they wanna tell and don't hold the comics as sacredly I guess. That said though, for me, in 1984, Secret Wars WAS my introduction to Doom, and most of that cast in fact. So Doomsday is yet another instance of me being really interested in what the movies are doing even if it veers far from the comics. Manufacturing stakes is what every single fictional story has ever done. There was a point where Reed and Sue didn't have a child in the comics, then the writers conjured him. The movie writers did that for Tony, and now Steve (unless Steve and Peggy's kid is someone we already know, since this kid was born decades ago. How much of your lid will flip if that baby grows into Robert Downey Jr,'s Dr. Doom?).

So, I totally get the cynicism in this thread despite not sharing it at all, and I definitely do get holding the original material as sacred, even though I don't. I'm not saying you're wrong or an idiot or any of that, just expressing where my head's at.
 
To be fair, I'm a little different from Ace in this. I haven't written off Doomsday as 'definitely bad' or anything like that. I don't even think we -can- because we don't know enough concerning what it's even about. I just think bringing these characters/actors back is cynical, both on the part of the studio and on the part of the consumers that demanded it. That will remain true even if it's the best movie Marvel has ever made.

That doesn't mean it can't be fun or exciting. I've liked... definitely more than half of the MCU. Probably closer to 75%? That's not a bad ratio considering how much of it there is. It's definitely not high cinema most of the time, whatever that might mean to you, but as comic book popcorn stuff I can get a lot of enjoyment from it. If Doomsday is good, I'll be happy to watch it. If we get more details and it sounds like total ass, I'll just sit this one out and not be too worried about it. But I'm not of that opinion yet because, again, we don't really even know anything about this movie yet.

My biggest concern is that I love Marvel and I want Marvel to keep having movies (and shows) that I enjoy watching. And I don't want them to feel like they can never move forward because fans won't let them.
 
It’s not about holding the material sacred.

The example I used with my wife is “like say in the next The Batman movie, he suddenly has this pet hamster, and he just loves the fucking hamster so much and it dictates all of his motivations, and also for some dumbass reason the Joker, the Penguin, and Scarlett Johansson want to kidnap the hamster. Even though ‘Batman’s Pet Hamster’ is not a thing and Batman is not now nor never has been known as a guy who keeps a pet hamster as a core part of his character.”

Re: Doom: I mean the whole well is poisoned. It’s stunt casting to the core, manufactured “hype”, and that sucks no matter what.
 
Ru1977 said:
How much of your lid will flip if that baby grows into Robert Downey Jr,'s Dr. Doom?
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Ha ha that’s exactly the kind of ouroboros self-fellating I expect from this franchise.

It’s also like in that Dracula 2000 movie when they were all “surprise! Dracula was Judas from the Bible all along!”
And that was fucking awful too.
 
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