General Marvel Legends

CTV said:
it was embarrassing how the fanbase reacted to that like it was the most scandalous thing that could ever happen.
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Embarrassing? DEFINITELY.

But it was super-fun to listing to bloviating comics-bros go off about something X-related and then just casually drop “you know Scott and Logan are banging, it’s canon bro!”
😁
 
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CTV said:
Rachel Summers and Betsy Braddock are in a relationship, which tbh grosses me out.
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Why does it gross you out?
CTV said:
Rachel was boning Nightcrawler during X-Men: Gold which was also terrible.
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It just really makes no sense on any level.
hmmberto said:
I'm trying to wrap my head around the implications of that and if it makes it better or way worse? From Kitty's perspective, Illyana would have been a child until half a second ago. Does it actually make it *less* creepy if she becomes interested in dating her after she suddenly steps out of Limbo as an adult? Of course a lot of it is in the execution and the details of their actual relationship over the years, just trying to make sense of it.
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Like I said, from Kitty's perspective it would almost be like meeting someone new. Sure, she knows it's the same person who was a child moments before, but this person comes out of a portal and is totally different. I mean, it's not really something the average person deals with, so the ethics of it are difficult to sus out.
CTV said:
I do always wonder why Wolverine gets off scot-free in these discussions since he's 100+ years older than all of his love interests bar Mystique.
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Well, I don't think an older person dating someone younger is always wrong, if the two individuals in question are both mature adults, and it's not like he has a whole lot of women his age to date. Wolvie is never interested in anyone who isn't a mature person, and in fact seems to take on a rather protective older brother role with anyone who isn't a grown-up, which is why I think people generally don't view him as a creep.
 
TheGillMan said:
Wolvie is never interested in anyone who isn't a mature person, and in fact seems to take on a rather protective older brother role with anyone who isn't a grown-up, which is why I think people generally don't view him as a creep.
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Bingo.
Logan is all “cool-but-responsible uncle” vibes.
 
@TheGillMan I don't like it because Rachel grew up in a future where the rest of the X-Men were peers of her parents. I wouldn't put her with any of them, and especially not Kitty. Rachel/Betsy also hasn't been written well. I don't like Kitty/Illyana either; she was engaged to her brother and knew her as a literal child so it's very hard pass for me
 
See, for me I'd be cool if we never knew anything at all about the sex lives of our heroes. Relationship status - sure, fine but the scenes of them undressed in bed with each other seem unnecessary... included to trigger reader's inner adolescent or whatever.

Its not at all what I'm here for... I read super heroes for super hero stuff. It doesn't need to be racy or titillating..

I feel that way about alot of movies and TV shows too though.
 
I don't mind it when it's done well. Sex is a part of life; I expect art to imitate life when I'm consuming content about adult characters who have adult relationships. I think the problem is that a lot of comic writers and editors are exactly who you'd expect them to be so the quality of the end result can vary wildly.
 
I generally got the sense that X-Men comics lately have leaned heavily into instead of being analogous for LGBTQ - to straight up dialing in on the representation.

While I can't speak on behalf of the community there, you'd think it would feel a bit pandering for characters that have long been established as heterosexual coming out in relatively quick succession.
 
I’m always wary to say “no” entirely to nudity/sexual situations in art, but I *do* think there needs to be more narrative/character necessity beyond “yeah, that’s hot, bro.”

I had a writing partner back in the day who came to work one evening and said “we need a lesbian sex scene in this script”. I of course asked why, as the story didn’t have anything to do with that. “Guys like to see two girls naked and fucking. It will help sell the movie.” I was a hard no on that, and the script was never finished.
🤷‍♂️
 
Enforcer said:
I generally got the sense that X-Men comics lately have leaned heavily into instead of being analogous for LGBTQ - to straight up dialing in on the representation.

While I can't speak on behalf of the community there, you'd think it would feel a bit pandering for characters that have long been established as heterosexual coming out in relatively quick succession.
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That's how coming out works. Characters like Kitty, Rachel, and Iceman have (in some cases) decades worth of subtext and hinting that's finally become explicit because we're in a more progressive era with slightly more diverse creative teams. I can't think of any LGBTQ X-character who had a sexuality slapped on them that didn't make sense within the narrative.
 
I feel like the same points can be made with restraint and allusion... not everything needs to be overt and in your face.

I get the point that 'sex is part of life and so should be reflected'... but pooping is a part of life and we don't see a bunch of scenes of people on the toilet... Like there are lots of things that are part of life that people do every day that don't have to be shown on panel.
 
CTV said:
That's how coming out works. Characters like Kitty, Rachel, and Iceman have (in some cases) decades worth of subtext and hinting that's finally become explicit because we're in a more progressive era with slightly more diverse creative teams. I can't think of any LGBTQ X-character who had a sexuality slapped on them that didn't make sense within the narrative.
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To me it felt very organic ... although Iceman was funny because it felt less like they were enacting what the writers always intended but couldn't make explicit (as with the Claremont-created folks), and more an explanation for decades of badly-written hetero Iceman relationships.
 
PantherCult said:
I feel like the same points can be made with restraint and allusion... not everything needs to be overt and in your face.

I get the point that 'sex is part of life and so should be reflected'... but pooping is a part of life and we don't see a bunch of scenes of people on the toilet... Like there are lots of things that are part of life that people do every day that don't have to be shown on panel.
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That's a very slippery slope, especially considering X-Men's minority metaphor, representation, etc. Specifically when it comes to characters being in queer relationships, overt and in your face becomes way more important. Claremont wanted to establish Nightcrawler's parents as Mystique and Destiny but was told no. They finally established his parentage in 2023. Hints about Iceman's sexuality go back to first Champions series in 1975 but he wasn't allowed to actually be gay until 2015. In some cases allusion doesn't cut it.
 
CTV said:
The idea of Kitty/Illyana is gross imo, way worse than Kitty/Piotr. I do always wonder why Wolverine gets off scot-free in these discussions since he's 100+ years older than all of his love interests bar Mystique.
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It was said before, bit him only ever having romances with other adults he meets is a big reason why he doesn't get flack
PantherCult said:
See, for me I'd be cool if we never knew anything at all about the sex lives of our heroes. Relationship status - sure, fine but the scenes of them undressed in bed with each other seem unnecessary... included to trigger reader's inner adolescent or whatever.

Its not at all what I'm here for... I read super heroes for super hero stuff. It doesn't need to be racy or titillating..

I feel that way about alot of movies and TV shows too though.
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That feels like it's been x-mens whole deal since Claremont .

That dude loved having his kinks on page
 
So, I have absolutely NO problem with characters being in same sex relationships. If you want to show Bobby and his boyfriend ice skating and holding hands - cool. If you want to show Kitty and her girlfriend nuzzling by the fire - great. What I'm saying is I don't want or need to see ANY of these people in bed together, not Scott and Jean, not Reed and Sue, not Ororro and Tchalla.

I do 't feel like that content is necessary to tell good super hero stories.
 
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