Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

[JakeEkiss]

Why would a Table Top Gamer Store owner who doesn’t already sell action figures want this game? Why would they think their customers want this game? Why would they give up space that could be used for Pokemon cards or snacks and sodas for the guys who spend all day in the back to buy or other high ticket items in a world where space is increasingly becoming a premium commodity?

Thing is, 4H probably shouldn't want to be in game stores. That is a *terrible* value proposition for a small gaming company, much less a company that is basically doing this game as a hobby on the side to their actual toy business. Game stores are, on average, not a great place to discover games. Think about the last game store you were in. How many of the games were on a shelf, showing you only their spine? How many game stores are actively running demos of new systems and supplements that come out to get players interested? Will they run this one? If they don't, what would lure an average gamer to pick it up? How will that gamer have heard of this supplement outside of this kickstarter?

And the deal with a game store is they're only going to want to pay 50% of cover cost at most for a 3rd party supplement like this. So that book better cost significantly less than half the cover cost to actually print, or else 4H would basically be losing money just through shipping.

If 4H wants it to be a successful game on its own, like they legit want to expand into that market, there's a lot more than needs to be happening. I think this is basically a toy kickstarter and the game part is more or less a vanity project tacked on. Some folks will buy it, sure, but they don't seem to be treating it like they actually want that to be a new stable revenue stream.

 

[JakeEkiss]

How many backers would a new, unknown game get on a Kickstarter from a company without a reputation in the field?

It varies greatly depending on what they've shown and how much they've built up trust within the community beforehand. Like, some are looking at double digit backers. Then you've got Matt Colville who launched his first kickstarter 5e supplement and got nearly 20k backers and over a million dollars, allowing him to start a whole company. But then, he had help in that he had the youtube channel that showed off his design sensibility and he had the recommendation of folks like Matt Mercer who are recognized names within the space.

But 4H isn't a new company, just new to ttrpgs, and certainly they know who some of the folks in the space are. It wouldn't take much to hire known designers to do some work for them or invite some of them to play to show off the product and give it a boost.

 

[JakeEkiss]

Just did the math again: of 1034 backers only 508 want anything to do with the game

Those production costs are going to SUUUUUCK for them if that number doesn't go up. Price breaks on production don't usually start until at least 1k units.

 

[fac]

They're at nearly $500,000 already, I'm sure they can use some of that to cover additional units to get the production numbers to 1,000 or more, even if it doesn't get there on its own.

 

[JakeEkiss]

They're at nearly $500,000 already, I'm sure they can use some of that to cover additional units to get the production numbers to 1,000 or more, even if it doesn't get there on its own.

Yeah, I'm not necessarily saying they can't produce what they need to, just saying if the goal is to sidestep into long term ttrpg stuff it's not going to be especially profitable to play to a base that small. Once your core rules are out nearly everything you release after will sell to a smaller subset.

 

[TheSameIdiot]

I've wanted a full 12-class D&D party for a long time. If I had the space, warmer feelings toward 4H, and the add-on sets were more unique, I'd be all over the full party tier. It's a shame the druid, ranger, paladin, and barb aren't unique figures.

As a former dice goblin, the dice are pretty nice too.

I can't see the TTRPG going anywhere.

 

[TheCaptain]

Shipping charges seem a bit high

They have this disclaimer at the bottom of the campaign page:

NOTE: The shipping "estimates" here on Kickstarter are WAY too high! Unfortunately Kickstarter is not taking into account combined and reduced shipping prices when lots of add-ons are added to a pledge, so the totals they are showing are wildly off! Know that shipping is NOT charged until these items arrive and are ready to go, and once they are ready you will be charged accurate shipping totals based on combined packaging and the significant shipping rate discounts we have in place with carriers!

 

[Mint In Boks]

How many backers would a new, unknown game get on a Kickstarter from a company without a reputation in the field? I genuinely don't know but I think as a starting point it isn't bad, its gets their feet in the door, they can see if it leads anywhere or not.

Not gonna do a lot of research on this, because it’s a bad faith argument.

The Horsemen are not an unknown company without a reputation, so this is already a moot point.

If someone who enjoys TTRPG’s sees his campaign they can click the “five created” and see three successful toy campaigns, and a failed video game were they at least released what was done and offered refunds for non-physical rewards so clearly they’re trust worthy.

I’d have to assume someone with no toys to bouy the numbers and zero campaigns created saying “guys… you can be a skeleton but you DON’T have to be evil! No gameplay samples and no stretch goals related to the game itself unless you count drop ship dice!” would fail, so yea, compared to them the Horsemen are doing amazing selling 160 books, yes

When I open Kickstarter it suggests two gaming campaigns to me one fully funded by a 20 time game maker, fully funded, that has 200 backers, the other, also fully funded, by a 5 time creator like the Horsemen with 900 backers. So by that measure maybe the Horsemen are doing great selling 160 books without toys, but also maybe they’re doing shitty selling 580 books with the help of toys to prop them up… who knows!

Edit:
Just saw the Monster Pack stretch goal… why break the format? Why is this a $45 “deluxe” item and not a figure and an upgrade kit?

Aside from being rude to stores you think might sell this game (the figures are $30… except this one, so you gotta give just this one it’s own peg!) it’s rude to me personally who just wants another Boarrior and no little vampire goblin! Rude!

 

[fac]

Not gonna do a lot of research on this, because it’s a bad faith argument.

The Horsemen are not an unknown company without a reputation, so this is already a moot point.

Wasn't meant to be a bad faith argument, just was curious what the expectation might be - 4H have no reputation in the RPG area, I wouldn't have expected a lot of people buying the game itself without much info about it (and it doesn't look like many have), but wasn't sure how much the RPG fans out there are willing to give something new a try without a lot of info.