Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

thewyldman said:
Well that’s a figure that’s gonna be trash and then long forgotten if it comes out because it’s brutal realm.
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Comment from the Kickstarter...
Backer: "Will there be an update addressing that the figures that are supposed to have shipped before Chinese New Year (as stated in previous updates) are most definitely delayed and looking more like figures may ship later on in the year?"

Realm ToysCreator: "No."
 
Red Ogre said:
Comment from the Kickstarter...
Backer: "Will there be an update addressing that the figures that are supposed to have shipped before Chinese New Year (as stated in previous updates) are most definitely delayed and looking more like figures may ship later on in the year?"

Realm ToysCreator: "No."
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More importantly:
“No refunds”


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Damien said:
Oh my god, I actually just went and read the 4H presser for the change to their 'not Red Sonja' figure and it was the most insincere, dishonest, slimy bullshit I've ever seen come from the 4H. Fucking gross.
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Agreed with this. Crazy to pass off the resemblance as unintentional and the decision to reverse course as resulting from internal discussion following some epiphany. Don't know if there was a legal reason or just a failure of integrity that prompted them to lie rather than just fess up with "we're fans and meant it as an homage but got yelled at and don't want the fight." As discussed, even that would be giving themselves the benefit of the doubt as to the line between homage and theft but at least they'd have been honest about referential intent and motivation to drop it.
 
fac said:
Also interesting. Seems like it would be really dumb on BBTS part to not have thought that through...but maybe they didn't...
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My understanding is that Fresh Monkey Fiction syarted out with some of these homages in their 1/18 Eagle Force line.

Some other guys saw thaat and got inspired and did a whole kickstarter of the Roboskull vehicle and figure. That started out as 1/18 product as well.

Hasbro didn't seem overly bothered. But then FMF moved into 1/12 - which is where Hasbro is doing its G.I. Joe product currently. And FMF snuck a Red Shadows trooper head into their Sleepwalker figure but as a secret pack in not shown as part of the advertising photos .

However once they got bolder with their Crimson Moon line with pack in items to reconfigure the figures as all of the Red Shadows characters, and once they partnered with BBTS to run the brand, it got big enough that Has ro couldn't ignore it and they reached out and told FMF/BBWS to knock it off.

And so they have. BBWS has pivoted and no second wave of Crimson Moon has been solicited.

I get the sense that Hasbro didn't want to drop the hammer - they know and like the FMF guys. But they can't let it go on either.

And then Super7 who paid for access to the GIJoe license released their own Red Shadows figures...

[t is interesting that the Roboskull guys didn't get shut down similarly since they seem much more overt in their infringement on the Red Shadows product offerings.
 
So I've never brought this up in 4HM threads, but as long as we're complaining about them: a long time back I had an order from them where I received the wrong item - I think I had ordered the second Artemyss and they sent me that horse with the A name instead. No big deal, I emailed to arrange for me to send back the incorrect figure for the one I had ordered. But then their customer service guy said that one of the things they needed was a photo of the entire packing slip sheet, because "there should be a colored marking on it that will tell me who packed it." I was pretty astounded by that, as someone who's managed an e-commerce department before - like, there's no way that information isn't going to be used punitively against an employee, and I was pretty upset they had a system like that. I told him I wasn't comfortable doing that as part of the return, and he sent back a one-sentence email: "I need to know."

At that point, I told him that if they're making that a condition of the return, I didn't want to go any further with it. I got back a 5 or 6 paragraph email complaining about how difficult things are for a company that small and trying to assure me that the colored-mark system is being used not to punish employees but to help them improve (and I didn't believe that, but even if I had been open to believing it, I can't know for sure how the information is going to be used so I wouldn't risk it), but there was also some snark in there about me keeping the more expensive figure, which is like...I don't want this horse, I just want to be done dealing with an asshole. But that pissed me off, and I asked that I be able to speak to someone higher up about the situation. And the higher-up resolved it, but also managed to passive-aggressively imply that there was a lot that professionalism prevented him from saying to me.

So yeah, I haven't bought a single thing from them since.
 
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Red Ogre said:
I almost backed them, but something gave me the twitchy tingles and I went through BBTS.
Glad I did.
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I don't think there's been anything too disconcerting in the updates, right? No idea why people would be trashing them already anyway, unless it's for their aesthetics. 2 to 2½ years for delivery on an overly ambitious project like this with too many distinct figures as stretch goals was pretty expected. Which is why Savage Crucible split up their kickstarter in waves to great effect.

Those preliminary renders for Athena and the female body look not great, but they're early digital stuff so I'm not too pessimistic yet about what they'll deliver. That being said I am also glad I went through BBTS just in case...
 
I think 3P Transformers and 1/6 figures has desensitized me to action figure IP infringement because there it's been so blatant and long term. Before the Red Sonja situation, I saw the 4H's figure on Toy Shiz or Preternia and thought, "Oh look, the 4H are doing another scantily clad warrior babe, but in mediocre Mythic Legions style." I didn't even think of Red Sonja because it's such a cliche or trope at this point and it makes sense to have a blonde, brunette, and redhead. It's been awhile since I got what's her face with the shaved side hair and I canceled Neve during a BBTS preorder purge because I didn't care anymore,t so I thought the timing might be a reaction to Xesray's Gold Hildr and their girls.

I have or had many many IP infringing figures over the years. This one from a couple years ago is an amusing example of not crossing the line. If you squint, she looks like Sigourney Weaver. She has a pulse rifle. Her outfit looks like a character from Aliens. Her sneakers aren't exactly Reebok's because they say "Ripley" on them.

F8w4qxq.png
 
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bat said:
Agreed with this. Crazy to pass off the resemblance as unintentional and the decision to reverse course as resulting from internal discussion following some epiphany. Don't know if there was a legal reason or just a failure of integrity that prompted them to lie rather than just fess up with "we're fans and meant it as an homage but got yelled at and don't want the fight." As discussed, even that would be giving themselves the benefit of the doubt as to the line between homage and theft but at least they'd have been honest about referential intent and motivation to drop it.
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I really can't express how disgusted I am with it. Like, the easiest thing is to say 'we've had to remove two head options due to unforeseen complications. We apologize for the inconvenience and disappointment to our fans. We love and appreciate you guys! Revised photos show everything that will be included with the final figure.'
That's it. You don't have to BLATANTLY lie or even shy away from the truth. Getting smacked on your peepee was an unforeseen complication that caused the change to the figure. That message is 100% honest and succinct. Let the pictures speak for themselves. Every fan is going to know what happened, but that doesn't mean you have to address it directly. Release the heads with a different figure some other time and no one will even care because you didn't call so much attention to the problem to begin with.

It's so infuriating to me that people love these idiots so much, but it's clear that their FIRST instinct in every situation is to cheat, lie, and steal. They are garbage.

secondwhiteline said:
So I've never brought this up in 4HM threads, but as long as we're complaining about them: a long time back I had an order from them where I received the wrong item - I think I had ordered the second Artemyss and they sent me that horse with the A name instead. No big deal, I emailed to arrange for me to send back the incorrect figure for the one I had ordered. But then their customer service guy said that one of the things they needed was a photo of the entire packing slip sheet, because "there should be a colored marking on it that will tell me who packed it." I was pretty astounded by that, as someone who's managed an e-commerce department before - like, there's no way that information isn't going to be used punitively against an employee, and I was pretty upset they had a system like that. I told him I wasn't comfortable doing that as part of the return, and he sent back a one-sentence email: "I need to know."

At that point, I told him that if they're making that a condition of the return, I didn't want to go any further with it. I got back a 5 or 6 paragraph email complaining about how difficult things are for a company that small and trying to assure me that the colored-mark system is being used not to punish employees but to help them improve (and I didn't believe that, but even if I had been open to believing it, I can't know for sure how the information is going to be used so I wouldn't risk it), but there was also some snark in there about me keeping the more expensive figure, which is like...I don't want this horse, I just want to be done dealing with an asshole. But that pissed me off, and I asked that I be able to speak to someone higher up about the situation. And the higher-up resolved it, but also managed to passive-aggressively imply that there was a lot that professionalism prevented him from saying to me.

So yeah, I haven't bought a single thing from them since.
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None of this actually surprises me.
Also shows how fucking dumb they are. So they have a system to track who packed which order, but that system doesn't catalogue in THEIR computers based on order number and is reliant on the -customer- copy of the invoice? How fucking dumb are these people? I run a business. I would never ask a customer "which crew was at your job site?" I should know that. Our internal systems should have a log of that. If we don't, that's an US problem, not a CUSTOMER problem and I cannot -imagine- making it the customer's problem. Not just because it's wildly unprofessional, but because it creates that uneasy feeling in people you described.

I wish it had been me, honestly. I would have just been like "nah, man - take the suit and tie off. Don't worry about professionalism - say what the fuck you want to say and let's see where it goes." I've got NO patience for cunts - and everyone at 4H strikes me as a giant cunt. Even the main guys - I've never seen an interview with them where I didn't have this 'I just smelled a fart' look on my face for at least part of it. They just rub me way the wrong way, even before all the theft.

TheCaptain said:
I don't think there's been anything too disconcerting in the updates, right? No idea why people would be trashing them already anyway, unless it's for their aesthetics. 2 to 2½ years for delivery on an overly ambitious project like this with too many distinct figures as stretch goals was pretty expected. Which is why Savage Crucible split up their kickstarter in waves to great effect.
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I think it's about tone. The toy world will offer almost endless grace to people that they feel are being straight with them, making an honest effort, and want to make something fun and cool. Even if it's clear they're struggling. But responding to a request for an update when you have -already missed the deadline set out in your last update- with 'no' makes you a clown. And when you start acting like a clown, people stop giving you that grace they'd been extending before.

The guys running this KS clearly don't know what they're doing and don't have an actual plan to get back on track. But the thing that's going to upset people is that they don't seem to -care- or feel bad about it. Look at CFT to see how fast the fans can turn on you when you just act like an entitled asshole that doesn't care about the people whose money you're sitting on.
 
PantherCult said:
[t is interesting that the Roboskull guys didn't get shut down similarly since they seem much more overt in their infringement on the Red Shadows product offerings.
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I have to imagine that they scooped up the copyright for Roboskull and Skeletron since they're using those names proper instead of like Count Ironmoon.
 
Oh they did, but names dint mean IP.

But Hasbro probably has no plans to ever do a roboskull so no real desire to go after them


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