Last Series Watched

I know Firefly has mostly been moved on from in this discussion, but I just gotta echo the love for it and how badly it was screwed over. Talk about an expansive world rich with stories. Could've gone on for ages if they let it; heck, it's been getting comics and books fairly consistently spanning all the way back to 2005- there's obviously love for the property and characters. I actually rewatched Serenity on a flight not too long ago, and I think it holds up. It definitely speeds through things- not so much "leaf on the wind" but "leaf in the middle of a hurricane". We really needed more time with the characters- old and new. Mr. Universe? Fanty and Mingo? The Operative? All fun characters that needed more to do. And like others have said, there's just no way you would've gotten the story if you hadn't seen the show, so it had all factors working against it. But if you like the show and haven't given the comics a try, I'd recommend them. Some fans argue more for the Dark Horse run, others for the Boom! Comics run. Along with the books, they do fill in some of the unanswered questions we were all left with.

As for the ending discussion, I generally think that a bad ending doesn't ruin a good show, at least for me. It's like throwing up after a sumptuous feast. You still enjoyed the feast, even if it ended kind of badly, and now you know for next time maybe not to gorge yourself quite as much. Game of Thrones, for instance- there's still some amazing, iconic episodes that I don't think are ruined by the ending (then again, I don't necessarily hate the ending itself- I do think it's generally where everyone would've ended up, more or less, they just took out like a half season or more of the necessary setup, but that's a different discussion). Same with Lost- a lot of folks were disappointed by the ending, but I liked it, and think it added a whole other angle to the show I hadn't really considered. I don't think Breaking Bad would be considered a bad show if they hadn't stuck the landing, because the rest of it was so strong. But I don't begrudge anyone for disliking any of those endings; I'm an easy person to please to a fault. In my mind, the only way for something to really "ruin" the ending is when they basically disregard what came before it in favor of something totally new, like, say The Rise of Skywalker. As long as there's thought and care and effort put into something, I'm generally okay with it, but when it's just sped through (like Daenerys), that's when it sours a bit for me.
 
I'm going to say that, outside of a few notable exceptions where the ending made me feel actively terrible, a bad ending does not ruin a story for me, especially in long-form like TV. You're trying to tell a story while being paid and manipulated by people who do not understand story, and often barely understand humanity, frequently for an audience that thinks they know your character and story better than you do, while faced with wild things completely out of your control like actor availability, budget, marketing... For me, especially when it comes to a TV show that makes it more than two or three seasons... give me a journey. Sticking a landing in TV is hard because they keep moving the fucking floor on you.
 
joshsquash729 said:
Same with Lost- a lot of folks were disappointed by the ending, but I liked it, and think it added a whole other angle to the show I hadn't really considered.
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I hesitated to even say it because like 90% of people who talk about LOST hate it, but goddamn, what a journey. That show has a special place in my heart and I don't want to even hear from anyone who picks it apart anymore, because it was all about the journey. I feel like you have to be a leaf on the wind to truly enjoy it, but that last line from Kate in the finale was a knife in my heart that'll get a tear out of me til the day I die.

Doesn't hurt that watching it was a journey for me - most of my family got together to watch it live, but then I moved to Ireland and this was before streaming so they would literally POINT A LAPTOP at the TV so I could watch it with them. It didn't have to be a perfect show; the act of partaking it in it enriched my life and that, to me, is the most important part of storytelling, not perfection.
 
docsilence said:
I hesitated to even say it because like 90% of people who talk about LOST hate it, but goddamn, what a journey. That show has a special place in my heart and I don't want to even hear from anyone who picks it apart anymore, because it was all about the journey. I feel like you have to be a leaf on the wind to truly enjoy it, but that last line from Kate in the finale was a knife in my heart that'll get a tear out of me til the day I die.

Doesn't hurt that watching it was a journey for me - most of my family got together to watch it live, but then I moved to Ireland and this was before streaming so they would literally POINT A LAPTOP at the TV so I could watch it with them. It didn't have to be a perfect show; the act of partaking it in it enriched my life and that, to me, is the most important part of storytelling, not perfection.
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Agreed! I watched it again recently- my first time since it aired- and it spoke to me in a whole different way. As a kid, I was in it for the action and twists and everything- but now I was in it for the characters, the story, the implications, the message, and yeah, even the shlock of it all. I loved it in spite of its messiness at times. I think it speaks to a specific kind of person who's been through a specific kind of thing in their life, since ultimately the show is just a bunch of imperfect but well-meaning people caught up in a crazy journey. As are we all.
 
Maybe it’s because Stephen King is my favorite writer of all time, but I usually *expect* endings of any creative story to be kinda bad and am always pleasantly surprised when they aren’t.

That’s also kind of like life.
 
joshsquash729 said:
Agreed! I watched it again recently- my first time since it aired- and it spoke to me in a whole different way. As a kid, I was in it for the action and twists and everything- but now I was in it for the characters, the story, the implications, the message, and yeah, even the shlock of it all. I loved it in spite of its messiness at times. I think it speaks to a specific kind of person who's been through a specific kind of thing in their life, since ultimately the show is just a bunch of imperfect but well-meaning people caught up in a crazy journey. As are we all.
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Y'know, I wonder if there is a shared life experience that interconnects people who like it vs. people who hate it. I don't want to assume for everyone but I think "have you ever felt like you've fucked your life up enough that the best thing that could happen to you is that you fall out of the sky and never go home, but you kept on fighting anyway? Because that's a of it for me. It's a lonely show about lonely people who need each other, in a world that, much like reality, makes no fucking sense most of the time.
AceofKnaves said:
Maybe it’s because Stephen King is my favorite writer of all time, but I usually *expect* endings of any creative story to be kinda bad and am always pleasantly surprised when they aren’t.

That’s also kind of like life.
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King's endings are all over the place, aren't they.

And yeah, life is a mess and full of surprises. Stories can be too.

Makes me think of one of the last things anyone said at the end of the first run of Critical Role - 400 hours of story, a mess by definition, and one of the players just says "that was a great story." It certainly wasn't a great story for everyone, but it was a great story for the folks who needed it.
 
docsilence said:
I hesitated to even say it because like 90% of people who talk about LOST hate it, but goddamn, what a journey. That show has a special place in my heart and I don't want to even hear from anyone who picks it apart anymore, because it was all about the journey. I feel like you have to be a leaf on the wind to truly enjoy it, but that last line from Kate in the finale was a knife in my heart that'll get a tear out of me til the day I die.
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Honestly... Yeah Lost wasn't perfect, and I have ideas for the final season especially... But like you, it was something my wife and all our friends often got together weekly to watch together, or we'd at least have a group chat about it after. And I've said before, but I was totally the lore keeper of the group, keeping track of all the strands, connections, crossovers, and even coming up with theories that blew my friends' minds about nonlinear time and such. And what was really shocking is the ending hit me so hard emotionally that I no longer cared at all about plot holes or continuity or dangling threads AT ALL.
docsilence said:
Doesn't hurt that watching it was a journey for me - most of my family got together to watch it live, but then I moved to Ireland and this was before streaming so they would literally POINT A LAPTOP at the TV so I could watch it with them. It didn't have to be a perfect show; the act of partaking it in it enriched my life and that, to me, is the most important part of storytelling, not perfection.
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That makes me love it even more.
 
Ru1977 said:
That makes me love it even more.
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I only missed one episode while I was there in real time with my family - RTE was showing it like, 48 hours later each week - and Mary flounces down next to me on the couch as I'm despondently watching the like, fourth to last episode (she was a flouncer, for such a dignified, elegant woman she flounced EVERYWHERE), tries to join in on this thing I love at the very end, says "so why this one in a wheelchair?" and I just looked at her like a stroke victim as I tried to figure out the fastest way to explain seven years of lore and she goes "okay then, enjoy your show!" and flounced off again.

I swear to gawd every minute of that relationship was either a sweeping love story or an episode of the Muppets, there was NOTHING in between.
 
JakeEkiss said:
The Star Treks probably came the closest since they all got finales, but much as I grew up on TNG, and still love that cast, I find the show pretty junky now.
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Uh oh. What makes you say that? My wife and I swapped shows several years ago. The deal was that I'd watch Gilmore Girls in exchange for TNG. We finished Gilmore Girls a few years ago (I enjoyed it!), and our TV calendar is almost clear enough to start TNG. Am I better off with DS9 or Voyager?
adrienveidt said:
This is not *remotely* an objective statement. This is *objectively* recency bias on steroids. Where's The Twilight Zone? All in the Family? In Living Color? Why is your 'great' the only 'great' that matters? And because those listed shows are serialized they can be judged as one story; and Game of Thrones turned out to be pureed dogshit as a story.
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It wasn't meant as a complete list, or an objective one. I never finished The Wire. Game of Thrones wouldn't make my personal top 25, though seasons 1–5 were genuinely some of the best ever made. That said, you'll find that most major publications and critics agree with that list.

My list is recency bias. I started watching TV after Seinfeld premiered. This is the tricky part of having 100 years of film and ~75 years of television. How far back does one have to go to have a valid opinion? I did the homework with film. TV, not so much. Am I expected to go back and watch 200+ episodes of All in the Family, a 54-year-old show? If so, I guess I'm buying the DVDs because it isn't available to stream.

A bit of a gatekeep-y thing to say.
 
We can settle all this by agreeing that Batman: The Animated Series is the greatest TV show of all time.


. . . or maybe Forever Knight. 🤪
 
TheSameIdiot said:
A bit of a gatekeep-y thing to say.
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While I actually agree with the rest of your post, and because this kind of thing is subjective I don't think it matters that much. Some things probably should be gatekept. For instance, we wouldn't accept an awards show where the judges are like 'we didn't watch most of the movies that came out this year so the Oscar goes to Jurassic Galaxy: Clever Subtitle or whatever.'
That is to say, if you were trying to make an actual comprehensive list of what you think are the greatest shows ever made, it would be hard to argue that it wouldn't be incumbent on you to do the work. But obviously that's not what's happening here and for a discussion forum that's obviously not a reasonable expectation.

Also, again, I don't even know how these conversations can really work. We argue about whether a show is good but also recognize that is -mostly- subjective. Really bad shows do seem to fall into an almost 'objectively bad' category where even people that like them can admit they aren't -good-.
But I like Hell on Wheels better than Deadwood. Can we argue one show is objectively better than the other? I doubt it.
 
Damien said:
One of my other favorite shows of all time was Renegade (judge me, I dare you)
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Damien said:
I watched Buffy, entirely because of my wife, much later and hated every fucking second of it.... it's just a horrible show.
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You asked for it:
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