Continuing my MCU rewatch

[Ru1977]

You're probably right, but some people in the audience felt pretty seen somehow.

 

[Fletch]

Avengers: Age of Ultron

Yeah, this movie wasn't top-notch when it came out, and it honestly doesn't hold up under rewatch. I try to keep my observations to 13 points (14 if there's a lot), but it turns out I have a lot to say about AoU, so bear with.

1. We start with an awesome opening sequence. Remember the one-shot fight scene in the Avengers' Battle of New York? This is that, but ends with that great poster moment. This movie started with the same energy that the last one finished on. Strucker and his goons were terrified and it really sold the Avengers' power.
   
   
2. They were trying way too hard with Wanda. All the weird head angles and sped up movements. Random eye flashes. It stands out a lot because, not only does it not land at all, but there was nothing comparable with Pietro. It was just Wanda being a little Goth girl. I'd seen Aaron Taylor-Johnson in a few things before and liked what I'd seen, so was kind of disappointed how little he impacted this movie (with one, obvious exception). I wish they'd played up his protectiveness of his sisters from the early days of the comics; it would've been something for him to do. Meanwhile, I'd only seen Elizabeth Olsen in maybe one other movie. She didn't really come together as a character for me until she stopped trying to be spooky and instead became the scared kid who had to overcome her fear. Unfortunately, that other movie I'd seen her in was in Godzilla the year before where she was Taylor-Johnson's wife, so that kind of looms over things.
   
   
3. This whole movie relies on me believing that Tony's creation of Ultron was a good idea gone wrong, and they failed spectacularly. I'm already wary of any story where a hero is the cause of the problem he solves, but he made no argument that convinced me an autonomous robot defense force powered by an alien AI was a good idea. I'm not sure how Bruce fell for it. Twice.
   
   
4. Again, no Jane in an Avengers movie. No Pepper either, but nobody cares.
   
   
5. They really let the Avengers connect in this movie. Bruce and Tony as science bros, Steve giving dating advice to Bruce, everyone trying to lift Mew-Mew. I love that Nat and Bruce are developing a relationship here, especially since I also loved how visibly terrified she was of the Hulk in the last movie. Their scenes were so natural and I really believed their growth together.
   
   
6. I don't *hate* the design of Ultron, but I think they went in a very wrong direction. His open cheek/jaw look is iconic to him in the comics, and aside from some battle damage scenes, we didn't get that here. More critically, they gave mofo some lips. James Spader's performance was great in giving Ultron the air of a machine with full emotions but little control over them. I found that way more menacing than a cold, calculating robot would have been. But then you give him the ability to smirk? I think the lips just over-humanized him. At the end, when Vision is talking to the last remaining drone in the forest, it's a featureless, non-expressive robot face but with Spader's very human voice coming out of it. It was chilling and something I wish they'd done the whole time.
   
   
7. I like the twins' anti-Stark motivations, but I think I needed a clearer view of the time frame. There was some anti-Iron Man graffiti around Sokovia, but he wasn't Iron Man when he was an arms dealer. It's not out of character for Tony to have no idea his weapons were used here and make the motivation solely one-sided ("I don't even know who you are.") but maybe some acknowledgement of the graffiti to help lay out the timeline? Or maybe a scene at Avengers tower when they're suiting up to attack Ultron, Tony and be confronted by the Twins and help them make peace. Something.
   
   
8. I really like the scene where they kind of pool their personalities to figure out where Ultron is going next. Cap's like "there's still paper, right?" and Tony's all "hey, I know that black market weapons dealer." Fun stuff. Fun fact: I still say "Wakanada" just from Bruce's line here.
   
   
9. Missed opportunity for Thor to refer to Wanda as "that scarlet witch," but maybe it would've been too much to have him name both her and Vision. Interestingly, though, Vision gets double-named, because not only does Thor give him the name by saying he saw him in a vision (which leads Steve to later ask "why does Thor's vision have Jarvis' voice?") but later Ultron also calls him his "vision." I guess my ideal scenario is Thor calls Wanda a scarlet witch, while the new android refers to himself as Ultron's vision and they both kind of stick. Pietro doesn't get a name for legal reasons.
   
   
10. The heroes' shame rooms in this movie were kind of weak. Again, it seems like it's trying to play into Wanda's gothy horror vibe, but they didn't really impact me much. Tony's vision in Sokovia of the dead Avengers seemed to affect him way more than it felt like it should, especially since that seems to be what scared him enough to want to follow thru on Ultron in the first place. Steve almost had an interesting vision of some dead soldiers celebrating the end of the war, but I'm not even sure that's what they were going for. And Thor had his own party where his powers go out of control and show a trailer of the next Avengers movie. Fortunately, Nat had a really effective and scary shame room that did a good job of giving some insight into her background and character. It was so good and much needed. I just wish they'd done a better job with the others.
    
    
11. Oh boy that Hulkbuster v Hulk fight was great. No notes. Come to think of it, Tony refers to Wanda as "that witch" at the start of the fight, so two missed opportunities to name drop her.
    
    
12. Introducing Clint's family was such a delightful twist. They'd sort of tried for a "what's he up to?" suspicion with the whole 'girlfriend' mislead, and it paid off wonderfully. Making Hawkeye just a regular family man amongst all these godlings was the best use of him. They got me twice with it too. Not only was I not expecting him to have a family, but when I learned of them, I was 100% sure he was going to die by the end.
    
    
13. And then Thor just kind of checks out. I like that he just shows up later to break the stalemate of whether or not to activate Vision, but I did not understand or enjoy the steps to get there. Like, if you've been following along, we already had the acknowledgment of Infinity Stones and their history and power in Guardians of the Galaxy. We didn't need the recap here.
    
    
14. I'm pretty sure I cheered out loud when Vision handed Thor his hammer. I think Paul Bettany's great, and it seemed a real lucky break that they happened to cast him as the voice of Jarvis way back in Iron Man. I doubt they had planned this far out, but having a handsome, fit actor just doing some voice-over work really paid off when it came time to make him Vision. I've seen some cut footage that showed Vision phasing through things at his first appearance here, and I think things would've benefitted from showing that ability up front. He does it at least once when he swoops in to upstage War Machine, so it's at least canonical, but it's so throw away. We definitely needed a full power demonstration when he appears.
    
    
15. Hawkeye's "you step out that door" speech to Wanda still gives me goosebumps. I still miss the rotating arrowhead quiver mechanism, though.
    
    
16. Of course Pietro had to die. There were legal obstacles with the X-Men over at Fox, and I never really considered him much an Avenger anyways. Still, I confess I really didn't see that coming.

This movie had some solid performances, with Spader being a real standout. I really enjoyed the character interaction between the heroes, and the non-solo movie characters of Nat, Bruce and Clint got all the character development they deserved. Unfortunately, the foundation of the movie is really shaky. It's all based on the heroes having to fix a problem they created and the really flimsy reasoning that got us there. Add in the franchise's first saga derailment scene where Thor just wanders off into a recap we don't need, and the actual plot of the movie has trouble standing on its own.

 

[Damien]

Hawkeye's "you step out that door" speech to Wanda still gives me goosebumps.

Possibly the best speech in the MCU. Easily in the top 3, at least.

 

[Ru1977]

Yeah, this movie wasn't top-notch when it came out, and it honestly doesn't hold up under rewatch.

You say this, but your comments then make it seem like you enjoyed it more than I expected you to, heh. I know it wasn't as well received as the original when it came out, but I really enjoyed it more, overall, than the first Avengers. They all know each other, so we get to jump right into the action. Actually, I think all the action holds up really well throughout. We also get one of my favorite sequences which was the party. Yes, we have to get things like a guy falling on top of the main female character with his face on her chest, something Whedon liked so much he repeated it in JL. I also think they should have either kept the original plan for Thor or completely redone his whole thing, but it still kinda works here. Yes, they're setting up the next Avengers (something I don't see the issue with), but also setting up why Thor leaves in the end. The original Avengers disband, and he got his motivation for why.

But beyond shit like that, I still feel it holds up incredibly well. The shame rooms were something I didn't have a problem with, especially after Thor's "Fortunately, I am mighty" line.

Ultimately though, like I said, the action throughout is really well done. I love having Rhodey, AND he gets to play in the end. I wasn't a huge fan of the twins in the comics, but they're enjoyable here for the most part. I dunno, I just think it's more fun throughout than the first since they didn't have to work as hard to get the characters in certain places and get to know each other.

 

[joshsquash729]

Been ages since I've seen AoU, and from what I remember, I agree- it had lots of fun moments, but as a whole felt a little disjointed. Not a bad movie by any means; it was always gonna be a difficult task to follow up the first Avengers movie. That said, I really like the team dynamic here. I'd have to rewatch it, but I think it may have my favorite dynamic of any of the team movies. Civil War was great for those little bits where we got all the different characters, and the first Avengers was quite good too, but they weren't really a full team until the very end. Say what you will about Whedon- I certainly do- but the man can write fun dialogue (to a fault, sometimes). Still a shame about Quicksilver, but part of me does applaud them for killing a character and having it stick. Not something you see often in comic book movies, even if it was supposedly done out of spite.

 

[Ru1977]

Right, it almost sucks how well Whedon can handle an ensemble because of him as a person.

 

[Fletch]

but your comments then make it seem like you enjoyed it more than I expected you to

This movie rides entirely on the character interaction. The shared moments are so real, that you're just kind of willing to ride out the stupid plot because you're riding with people you like.

Yes, we have to get things like a guy falling on top of the main female character with his face on her chest,

I give this one a pass because it immediately follows Bruce's honestly hilarious attempt to jump over the bar with her. I'm still chuckling at that while she's getting motorboated, so it doesn't have time to annoy me.

they should have either kept the original plan for Thor

Original plans? E'splain.

Civil War was great for those little bits

The Russo Brothers accomplish the near-impossible task in Civil War of giving everybody at least one cool action scene victory. Here, Whedon managed to do the same with personal interactions. Mostly at the revalries, but also throughout. He made sure everyone had a moment with everyone else and it's what holds this movie together.

 

[Ru1977]

Original plans

I have to look it up again but I know Loki was the focus rather than Heimdall..nothing against Elba of course but having Loki in all the Avengers movies would have been nice. And the scene would have been a little nod toward Thor figuring out his brother was alive and impersonating Odin.

But ultimately, Thors journey in AOU is about finally getting that scepter back to Asgard, then he gets visions of Vision and knows he has to act. But there are bits of what was taken out in the trailers where Thor meets the Norm, I think it was? And he got possessed by them and infodumps on Selvig.

Selvig, by the way, is my favorite part of the AOU bloopers.

 

[fac]

I liked Age of Ultron, it think it had a tough job of not being the first Avengers and not being the end of the Infinity stuff, so like many films that are in the middle of a series, it is hamstrung by going in that it isn't the conclusion and also that it doesn't have that "first time" spark either.

As much as I loved Buffy and Angel, Whedon has some writing quirks that bug me - he certainly falls into killing people off to show "stakes" too much (Coulson, Quicksilver) I feel, and he doesn't quite succeed with the grandiose themes as much as I think he thinks he is succeeding. But his character interactions are pretty good, when he keeps the quips to a manageable level.

 

[Fletch]

Thor meets the Norm, I think it was? And he got possessed by them and infodumps on Selvig.

I rewatch the trailer before watching each movie and done recall that. Maybe it was in a different trailer, though. It would give a reason for having Selvig there, if only in a "hey, write this down" capacity.

But I'm stumbling over what he actually learned. I'm sure he already knew about the Stones, Volstagg called them that specifically and Odin has a Gauntlet in his basement. I just can't figure out what the pool scene was even trying to tell us, and I can't connect the dots between this "revelation" and bringing Vision to life.

think it had a tough job of not being the first Avengers and not being the end of the Infinity stuff

I haven't thought about what the goal of a second movie should be. I suppose if you're going for one long story (which they are), this would be where you do an Empire and end on a down note. I feel like we're a little too early still for a Civil War-style breakup, though. Or they could've ended on an up note: gone through the crucible and come out stronger and more united than ever, plus some new friends.

Instead they just kind of move the pieces around. Thor and Iron Man leaves, but Cap and Widow stay with an otherwise new team of Avengers. It's not really much of a Part 2 at all, is it.

 

[PanchaMaestro]

I agree with the Ultron lips point. Hated it then. Still hate it. I get their reasoning; making him more emotive as a character. Marvel was knee deep in the "their villains except from Loki are dull" phase. What it really does is pull out a good deal of the horror of Ultron. I'm not a comic absolutist by any means but I do think it always works best when they stick to the broad thematic intent of the comics. Ultron as the unstoppable murder bot always was his real main appeal. His sparking Kirby crackle voice should have been played for horror more than snark.

That also leads to a problem with the 3rd act which plays like a rehash of the first Avengers 3rd act; a big CGI battle against a bunch of faceless mobs. If they'd gone with the unstoppable murder bot that shrugs off blows from Thor's hammer with only Wanda's reality scrambling powers left to harm him would have been a better way to go. Seems like they were going that way with the Vibranium (subbing for Adamantium) plot line in the middle of the movie but what really happens to that? Is if for Vision's body? I don't even remember. The storline could have been Ultron upgrading himself until he's unstoppable. Some "minions" would have been fine but shouldn't have been the point of the 3rd act.

I never really forgave the Clint family thing. Its right to position him as the human among gods and legends but just does some real damage to Clint as the perennial orphan, loser who's his own worst enemy dynamic from the comics. Not that everything has to be the same but it seems that's too big of a character beat just to dismiss. At its worst to me at the time it was just another sacrifice what's interesting about another character as long as they are giving Stark infinite complexity.

Totally agree about Vision's powers needing greater clarity. What percentage of the norms get that when Wanda subterraneans him in Civil War that she is turning his density up out of his control? Do the filmmakers even get that? Not sure why they wouldn't want to have played that up for greater diversity of power and feel. Maybe they finally will in VisionQuest. Makes sense for him to be a ghostly presence "looking in" on his old life in that series.

 

[Ru1977]

I rewatch the trailer before watching each movie and done recall that. Maybe it was in a different trailer, though. It would give a reason for having Selvig there, if only in a "hey, write this down" capacity.

But I'm stumbling over what he actually learned. I'm sure he already knew about the Stones, Volstagg called them that specifically and Odin has a Gauntlet in his basement. I just can't figure out what the pool scene was even trying to tell us, and I can't connect the dots between this "revelation" and bringing Vision to life.

I may be mistaken, but it seems like he initially goes into Age of ultron aware of the stones, or that something is happening related to them, and wanting to figure that out, but comes out of the pool scene understanding Vision is something that needs to happen. Then he goes back to Stark and Banner to make sure Vision is completed.

what really happens to that? Is if for Vision's body? I don't even remember.

Yes, Vision was where the Vibranium went, merged with the organic tissue Dr. Cho used on Hawkeye earlier. They made Vision essentially living vibranium for Ultron to use as his final form.

Also earlier I said "norm" when I meant "norn", in the cave scene. Probably autocorrect. I hate doing long posts here on my phone! But one thing from the trailer not in the movie was this:

 

[Fletch]

Oh yeah, I do remember that. Speaking of the trailer, there's a quick bit right at the end teasing the Vision by having a close up of his eyes opening. Honestly, if Thor's vision included that, I would have no further questions. I don't *need* to see all the other Stones revealed from their hiding spaces, but it can't be just that. If the vision just ended with Vision's eyes opening and looking directly at Thor, I think I'd be on board with him believing he needed to wake the android. At least there'd be a line drawn between the vision and the Vision.

The only other show-stopper for me is Tony's choice to make Ultron in the first place. I think the smallest change I could make to that would be to have Tony just be intrigued by the idea of advanced artificial intelligence and trying to wake it up to learn from it. If it was never his intent to use it to power a deathbot and it took over a robot body on its own, then Stark could still be at fault but not blindly so. Then it wouldn't feel so "what, again?!?" when he tried to put an AI in Vision. I don't know, it still feels flimsy, but I'm trying to think of the least that could've been done.

 

[Ru1977]

there's a quick bit right at the end teasing the Vision by having a close up of his eyes opening

Ah ha... may be head canon, but I had remembered that shot being exactly there in the movie, in the cave scene.
The deleted version with Erik and Thor talking to the Norns may have done a better job though.

If it was never his intent to use it to power a deathbot and it took over a robot body on its own, then Stark could still be at fault but not blindly so.

isn't that what happened?

 

[Fletch]

isn't that what happened?

I guess, but Tony was explicit about wanting to use this alien AI to control the Iron Legion to defend the world from alien threats.

"This could be it, Bruce. This could be the key to creating Ultron." and "if we could harness this power, apply it to my Iron Legion Protocol." He was fully intent on using the AI in the scepter to control Earth's defense robots in the same way Jarvis already does. You can argue that he didn't actually get that far and the AI jumped the gun and did it for himself, but it still makes Tony look bad. Like, you can't be all "I want this AI to control my robots" and then be "aw shit, the AI is controlling robots!!" Come to think of it, the fact that Ultron wound up doing it himself makes it worse that they even had Tony say those lines at all.

I'm not trying to convince anybody if they see no problem with it and enjoy the movie on its merits. I just personally think it's a crystal clear and terrible foundation to set a movie on.