Four Horsemen Studios Mythic Legions

If my experience at the Maryland toy show last summer is any indication, there's not gonna be hundreds of Legendary Warriors available at Zolocon. It's more like dozens. If they haven't already, they'll knock that job out in an afternoon.
 
This was a really dumb, completely avoidable blunder on 4H's part. I can only assume they've just gotten careless over the years with all their MOTU and now Conan homage figures.

However, the real reason I felt like commenting is that the Red Sonja character we know from popular culture already toed the IP line with Howard's Red Sonya character when Marvel was publishing Conan books in the 70s. Whether Marvel should have been able to copyright that character in the first place is debatable, but they were granted the copyright anyway. Red Sonja, LLC now owns the Red Sonja copyright, but they have to license all of her world and supporting characters from Cabinet Entertainment, who owns all the rest of Howard's IP. As far as I can tell, both Red Sonja, LLC and Cabinet Entertainment are just IP holding companies, i.e. parasites who buy up lapsing IP and contribute nothing of value to society.

Stealing IP from creators is indefensible. Stealing IP from IP holding companies is textbook Robin Hood shit and should be encouraged and applauded.
 
RunestoneCowboy said:
This was a really dumb, completely avoidable blunder on 4H's part. I can only assume they've just gotten careless over the years with all their MOTU and now Conan homage figures.

However, the real reason I felt like commenting is that the Red Sonja character we know from popular culture already toed the IP line with Howard's Red Sonya character when Marvel was publishing Conan books in the 70s. Whether Marvel should have been able to copyright that character in the first place is debatable, but they were granted the copyright anyway. Red Sonja, LLC now owns the Red Sonja copyright, but they have to license all of her world and supporting characters from Cabinet Entertainment, who owns all the rest of Howard's IP. As far as I can tell, both Red Sonja, LLC and Cabinet Entertainment are just IP holding companies, i.e. parasites who buy up lapsing IP and contribute nothing of value to society.

Stealing IP from creators is indefensible. Stealing IP from IP holding companies is textbook Robin Hood shit and should be encouraged and applauded.
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I tend to agree with this as a general principle. But I think it's pretty well established at this point that 4HM does both those things, so in this case I think it's less Robin Hood shit and more them doing whatever they want without regard for anything else. And there are companies in their sphere who are releasing Red Sonja product who went through the trouble of licensing the character, and I'd rather they not have their sales potentially cut into because someone entered a prompt into Chat4HM.
 
We can debate the ethics of stealing from IP houses, but since this is a license that’s actively being licensed out, they’re stealing from those who actually paid for the license


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Yeah - I mean my prophecy from above is ALREADY coming true where people want to focus on IP theft because it's just easier to talk about and defend than the fact that they also steal from actual working (or not) artists. We can talk all day about the morality of IP theft (much as I hate this expression - it is a slippery slope to start determining who has the right to own IP and who doesn't - especially if it's based on use, as that also implies a creator can be stripped of their own creation if they don't use it).
The fact of IP law is that it's largely a necessary evil if we're going to continue to exist in the hellscape that is Capitalism where everything needs to be monetized so you can afford to not die.

But you can set that all aside and just focus on the fact that the 4H steal from artists. Not corporations. Artists. People.
And as mentioned above, when they commit IP theft against a property that is currently being licensed out, they are also stealing from the people that paid to use that license.

To secondwhiteline's point; this isn't some nobility of purpose where the 4H recognize the futility of intellectual property and, as artists, reject the very notion of it because, you know, they just want to CREATE, maaaaaan. They're just arrogant thieves that care only about enriching themselves and DESPERATELY do not want to be found out as the deeply uncreative people that they are.
 
Damien said:
The fact of IP law is that it's largely a necessary evil if we're going to continue to exist in the hellscape that is Capitalism where everything needs to be monetized so you can afford to not die.
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Pretty much every single independent IP owner I've ever met is like: the current system SUCKS. But it's the only thin red line between me and losing everything I've ever created, so we have to work with it for now. The only people who like the current IP laws are like, Disney and houses like that, but those same laws unfortunately are also the only thing protecting actual creators.

Stealing from IP hoarders is KINDA Robin Hooding, but unfortunately eroding IP protections... the first people who will be destroyed when the dam breaks are the little guys. (Every author I've ever met who feels absolute shame at sending the C&D they legally HAVE to...)
 
Damien said:
They're just arrogant thieves that care only about enriching themselves and DESPERATELY do not want to be found out as the deeply uncreative people that they are.
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as a treat let’s all laugh at their only attempt at an original IP where they weren’t bullied into it by fans.

A look at the Magma Corps line from Four Horsemen Studios

sourcehorsemen.com sourcehorsemen.com

MAGMA CORPS!!!!

Boy was everyone confused and upset when the follow up the highly detailed and articulated (and brittle!) Xetheus was an “urban vinyl” copaganda figure! And they went all fucking in!

I’m not funny enough to say anything here to razz it that just reading the full page on your own wouldn’t do.
 
I'm not an IP lawyer or intend to play one on a message board, but wouldn't a C&D have been more effective? I wonder if RS knew they didn't have a leg to stand on, so they just tried to create a public spectacle and embarrass the 4H? If you can believe the comments from random people on instagram, they were also receiving harassing dm's from the official Red Sonja account because they happened to comment favorably for the Horsemen. That doesn't seem very professional. I wonder if the Official Red Sonja account went rogue? Was the Instagram account speaking for the LLC? Back in the old days, celebrities used to have "Official" fan clubs, most of them were run by some guy out of a basement. Since the Horseman folded, the tactic worked this time. Like I said, not a lawyer, but focusing on the red hair seems questionable. Why not demand removal of the chain mail bikini bottom too?

... and I'm completely indifferent to the 4H, I have a bin of maybe a dozen figures in my closet. I bought a Savage Crucible figure about two weeks. It trounced ML.

 
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I don't know if this is a valid analogy, but sometimes sports card companies make deals with players or the players association, but not the actual teams.

That's Troy Aikman not wearing a Dallas Cowboys uniform.
lUpSfAS.jpeg

America's Team 🤮
 
mrboshek said:
I'm not an IP lawyer or intend to play one on a message board, but wouldn't a C&D have been more effective? I wonder if RS knew they didn't have a leg to stand on, so they just tried to create a public spectacle and embarrass the 4H? If you can believe the comments from random people on instagram, they were also receiving harassing dm's from the official Red Sonja account because they happened to comment favorably for the Horsemen. That doesn't seem very professional. I wonder if the Official Red Sonja account went rogue? Was the Instagram account speaking for the LLC? Back in the old days, celebrities used to have "Official" fan clubs, most of them were run by some guy out of a basement. Since the Horseman folded, the tactic worked this time. Like I said, not a lawyer, but focusing on the red hair seems questionable. Why not demand removal of the chain mail bikini bottom too?

... and I'm completely indifferent to the 4H, I have a bin of maybe a dozen figures in my closet. I bought a Savage Crucible figure about two weeks. It trounced ML.

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Honestly, like 90% of copyright stuff is saber rattling. RS saves themselves a few bucks by not paying a lawyer to send a C&D on their behalf, 4H does the math and knows it'll cost them less to pull the heads than actually fight about it in court, both sides go back to doing their thing. Just screaming at your neighbor over the fence stuff.

Ironically, that cartoon is less of a legal problem because parody is protected. A good IP lawyer could actually do something about it if that guy actually tried to monetize Red Sue-Ya though because much like IP theft, parody is only parody until someone with more expensive lawyers decides it's not. There's a reason we see so few Disney parodies get legs.
 
I don't know if MadHatter was serious, he does tend to be a bit of a jokester. Someone here might know his background, he seems to have or had some kind of involvement in the entertainment industry (Hollywood). He might know what he can or can get away with. I think the drawing is questionable and wouldn't go there, but would be interested in a redhead wearing a chain mail bikini under something suitable for the courtroom.
 
He put out a MOTUO style figure called "Flip-Or" (a scalper type character), so creating parody type characters is something he's done.
I wouldn't put it past him to do something with that doodle if the situation persists.

It might just be a blip on the overall radar though, so he's likely just getting in on the current trend.
 
mrboshek said:
but wouldn't a C&D have been more effective?
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To be fair, we don't actually know that the 4H didn't get one. It's basically a form letter and it takes a law firm like twenty seconds to fill out. They could have been sending one over at the same moment that the stuff was going down on social media. Hard to say. But Doc is also right that whatever works -is- what's most effective. If yelling works, you saved the cost of a lawyer and still got what you wanted.
 
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